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BEAM and Expandable Spacecraft

Season 1Episode 39Apr 6, 2018

Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle talk about the commercial test module currently attached to the International Space Station called the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM). The respective former and current project managers for BEAM discuss the history and future of expandable spacecraft. HWHAP Episode 39.

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houston podcast episode 39 beam and expandable spacecraft bigelow expandable activity module

“Houston We Have a Podcast” is the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, the home of human spaceflight, stationed in Houston, Texas. We bring space right to you! On this podcast, you’ll learn from some of the brightest minds of America’s space agency as they discuss topics in engineering, science, technology and more. You’ll hear firsthand from astronauts what it’s like to launch atop a rocket, live in space and re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere. And you’ll listen in to the more human side of space as our guests tell stories of behind-the-scenes moments never heard before.

Episode 39 features Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle who talk about the commercial test module currently attached to the International Space Station called the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM). The respective former and current project managers for BEAM discuss the history and future of expandable spacecraft. This episode was recorded on February 8 and February 20, 2018.

Houston, we have a podcast

Transcript

Gary Jordan (Host): Houston, We Have A Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, episode 39, BEAM and Expandable Spacecraft. I’m Gary Jordan and I’ll be your host today. So, this is the podcast where we bring in the experts. You know this, guys. NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts, all to let you know the information– the coolest info right here at NASA. So, today we’re talking about expandable tech and expandable modules and a commercial module on the International Space Station right now called BEAM, or the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module. We’re talking with Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle. Rajib Dasgupta is now the material process engineering system manager for commercial crew, but he was the former project manager for BEAM through most of the beginning of the project. And Gerard Valle is now the project manager for the project. He used to be the BEAM structures lead. We talked about the beginning of the project with Rajib and more on what BEAM and expandable modules are made of, how they work, and what’s in store for the future with Gerard. Thanks to Max exclamation point and Kevin on Twitter for the suggestion to do an episode on BEAM.

So, with no further delay, let’s go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Rajib Dasgupta and Mr. Gerard Valle. Enjoy.

[ Music ]

Host: We’ll talk about BEAM today. So, basically the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module, right, that’s the acronym. I had to make sure I memorized that before today. So, the whole idea was basically it’s an expandable module, not like the aluminum shell that comes up exactly like it’s sent up, this thing is expanding, right? That’s the whole purpose of the expandable technology?

Rajib Dasgupta: Correct.

Host: OK. So, then when did this all start? When– how did expandable tech come to be?

Rajib Dasgupta: Well, expandable technology from a NASA standpoint started around mid-90’s, 1995, 1996– 1996 to be precise with the TransHab project when NASA embarked in a pretty large-scale development project into space inflatables and expandables. And the whole concept of expandable was design a habitable structure with of soft goods, nonmetallics, for it to be lightweight. And also, the other concept was to have a very small launch volume, typically in the ratio of 20-25% of the full expanded volume, which you can pack pretty tightly and then launch using minimum storage space in the launch vehicle in the fairing and then once you’re in orbit you expand it and get the full volume.

So, essentially two benefits.

Host: All right.

Rajib Dasgupta: One is the smaller volume for launch and the other one is lightweight, of course.

Host: Makes a lot of sense because you– even with a larger module, it has to fit in this– in the fairing, right? OK. So, that’s a huge benefit because you can launch something a lot larger, right, and then kind of pack it down.

Rajib Dasgupta: Pack it down.

Host: So–

Rajib Dasgupta: And, in fact, the smaller ball– the fact that we could pack BEAM to its smaller volume enabled us to launch in the cargo Dragon trunk. Because the trunk– the cargo trunk only had so much space and the packed BEAM was about the largest volume you could launch in the cargo Dragon.

Host: I’m imagining an analogy. I’m imagining like if you’re going on a camping trip, you wouldn’t pack your tent fully, you know, set up in the back of your trunk. You have to collapse it first.

Rajib Dasgupta: Collapse it, yes. Very similar concept.

Host: OK, yeah. But that was the idea, right? You didn’t have to– you didn’t have to purchase a larger vehicle. It could be shipped up in the trunk of the SpaceX with fully pressurized cargo on the other side, right?

Rajib Dasgupta: Absolutely. With our existing launch capabilities.

Host: Oh, amazing. All right. So, going back to TransHab.

Rajib Dasgupta: Right.

Host: So, the beginning of this idea of expandable technology. What was the project there, this development project?

Rajib Dasgupta: It was basically to develop a very large-scale expandable.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: Or inflatable. Much larger than BEAM.

Host: Oh, OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: But a full-scale space station compatible hab module to be completely made of an, you know, expandable structure. That was the whole purpose. And that enabled us to do some very detailed research and development and testing of expandable and inflatable materials and structures. And that went on for three years through ’99 when Congress decided to cancel that program. At which point, NASA actually licensed the patent– there were three patents that came out of that whole effort and then after that– after the cancellation of the TransHab program, NASA decided to license the patents to Mr. Bigelow in Bigelow Aerospace and that’s how Bigelow Aerospace really got into this kind of technology development and they further developed it into a mission-ready flight-ready structure.

OK?

Host: I see. So, there’s three licensed NASA technologies that are now over in Bigelow’s hands and that’s what they used to develop the expandable module that we see on the space station today?

Rajib Dasgupta: Well, they did further developments on that.

Host: I see.

Rajib Dasgupta: But they took the, you know, that was their baseline.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: That was their starting point. And then they did further testing and development, obviously, and that, you know, that involved to my knowledge significant amount of private enterprise funding from Mr. Bigelow to develop those technologies from that starting point into something that we could fly on station.

Host: OK. And a lot of it– and a lot of it has to do with– and we can get more into this when we talk with Gerard, too. But more of the structure itself is a lot of layers. Is that part of the technology?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yes.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: It comprises of several layers, each performing its own function.

Host: That’s right. Yeah. And about consolidating that, but each one, like you said, serves its own function so you kind of need that. OK. So, then how did the concept for BEAM start? When did we start moving from licensing this–

Rajib Dasgupta: So, happened in 2010.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: Precisely in April or May of 2010– April 2010 when NASA– for the ISS program, NASA Headquarters had what is called a broad-agency announcement, which is call– like, simply like call for proposal–

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: For ISS technology development and research, right? And then– so, Bigelow Aerospace did provide a detailed proposal in that call and proposed that they would fly a small-scale inflatable habitat or expandable habitat on station for technology demonstration. So, that’s when it started, 2010, in the mid-April timeframe. And then we got that proposal on the NASA ISS program side and did feasibility assessment from that and then that’s how it started, basically.

Host: So, Bigelow and NASA have been working pretty closely then from 2010–

Rajib Dasgupta: From 2010 onwards.

Host: OK. So– and how was the relationship there? It was mostly I guess Bigelow doing a lot of the technology development, but what was NASA’s role?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. So, Bigelow was doing most of the technology development of the expandable structure, but NASA’s role was to integrate that structure onto the ISS in a safe– in a safe manner, which does not, you know, compromise the safety and integrity– structural integrity of ISS.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: So, that was NASA’s role mainly. So, integrate that expandable structure onto the launch vehicle, which is Dragon and Falcon, and then on orbit deploy it and deploy it safely and demonstrate the technology for Bigelow.

Host: So, there were a lot of I guess constraints for sizing because it had to fit in a launch vehicle, right? But then also for the way it connected, making sure that all the hooks and switches connected, it was going to get power, it was going to get atmosphere, all of that kind of stuff, right? So, then I guess there were– did NASA have to do a lot with the fault safes I guess? Because, you know, making sure that– this is a test technology, so making sure that you’re right and if– in instance that there were some sort of instance where you would need to shut it off, I guess– were you developing procedures for that or technology for that?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Host: So, what were some of the things?

Rajib Dasgupta: Well, you know, some of the things– like, for example– just you said the size, right? So, the size– very interestingly enough, the size of BEAM was tailored according to what we could launch in Dragon. So, Bigelow came up– the original proposal had a different size. So, we had to resize it so we could launch it in Dragon. OK? So, that’s one. Then the connection, you talked about the mechanical and electrical connection. So, NASA provided through another commercial company called Sierra Nevada a port– a common porting mechanism that Bigelow attached to their module so that that common porting mechanism could attach the BEAM module to Node-3 aft. So, as you know, we have common attach mechanisms on ISS, so we had to provide that. OK? So, those are the two examples of, you know, what we had to integrate, but there were several other things, like loads and dynamics.

And when it would deploy, we needed to make sure that the deployment activity or the deployment did not impart a lot of dynamic loads on ISS structure because, you know, when you deploy it from a collapsed to an expanded state, there is some loads that’s imparted back to ISS. We had to make sure that those loads were within ISS margins. So that– and there are several other safety considerations, you know. Flam– flame resistance was another big safety consideration because the module was– the module was completely nonmetallic and full of fabrics.

Host: That’s right.

Rajib Dasgupta: Off-gassing was another consideration because, again, the module was completely– then external contamination was another consideration. All those– all those– big, big safety items were really what we worked on to protect ISS. But at the same time, we tried to make sure that the technology demonstration of the BEAM module was done in an acceptable manner. Right?

Host: But it also seems like the idea of protecting ISS ultimately benefits the module itself, right? This idea of making sure that it’s, you know, that– that it’s going to have this many loads, it’s not going to impact the structure of the International Space Station. That could be translated to another BEAM project or the idea of making sure the fabrics are flame resistant. Again, flames in space not good, so it’s perfectly translatable to their own technologies.

Rajib Dasgupta: Absolutely, absolutely. So, these are considerations that, you know, long-term could be used in, you know, expandable technology, further development of expandable technology, let’s say for exploration or something. These are the same considerations we have for deep space exploration.

Host: Yeah, yeah, right. So, taking the same technologies, going further out, even– I’m sure there’s discussions of expandable technologies on– for planetary bodies too and surfaces that have microgravity environment.

Rajib Dasgupta: Right.

Host: Yeah. So, perfectly translatable.

Rajib Dasgupta: Yep.

Host: So, how about the journey of BEAM? Where was it constructed and all the way its journey up to the International Space Station?

Rajib Dasgupta: So, BEAM was constructed over at Bigelow Aerospace facility at Las Vegas, Nevada. And then, once it was fully done, the flight module was fully done, it was shipped over to the Kennedy Space Center launch complex 40 annex where the Falcon 9 and Dragon launches. But first it was there in the SpaceX cargo processing facility where we did a lot of the integration work. The final integration work and the sensor work and cleaning– we did final cleaning of the module and then put it inside the trunk. OK? So, way– the way Dragon integration works, they integrate the payload inside the trunk separately and then once the payload is integrated inside the trunk, then the trunk goes and gets integrated on the rest of the Dragon capsule and then one step ahead then the Dragon capsule gets integrated into Falcon 9.

So, it takes place in steps.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: So, we first integrated the payload onto the trunk. That was our job. And once we finished that, we came back. And then the SpaceX team took it from there and integrated it into the launch vehicle.

Host: Was it expanded on the ground at any point during this process?

Rajib Dasgupta: No.

Host: So, it was always in this packed configuration.

Rajib Dasgupta: It was always in– the flight module was always in the packed configuration, yes.

Host: OK, so test modules I guess–

Rajib Dasgupta: Test modules and qualification test modules were expanded on the ground.

Host: OK. Very cool.

Host: So, then they launched– was it April 2015?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, actually the exact date was April eighth of 2016.

Host: Twenty-sixteen, OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: The BEAM was launched and it reached ISS on April 10th of 2016. Dragon, of course, has a two-day journey to ISS, 48-hour. And then the Dragon got to port to ISS and sat there for a little while. It’s normal, OK? And then on May 28th is when– well, in May, beginning– middle of May is when we started expanding BEAM. OK? We took it out from the Dragon trunk robotically with the ISS– the space station arm. And then brought it on its final home on Node-3 aft. And then, after that, we started deploying it or expanding it. And, finally, we got it deployed on May 28th, 2016.

Host: OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: To be exact. But we had some challenges during expansion.

Host: I see. What were those challenges?

Rajib Dasgupta: Well, it was not opening up. As simple as that.

Host: Yeah.

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. And basically– again, to protect ISS from a load standpoint, the procedures we had was not to open those inflation tanks initially because that would impact– impart a lot of impact loads on ISS. So, the procedures we had was to slowly inject ISS through the IMV, the inter-module ventilation valve to expand BEAM. But I guess we were injecting so little air into it, it was not– and coupled with the fact that– it– the flight BEAM was sitting in that packed configuration for almost a year–

Host: Oh, right.

Rajib Dasgupta: And the fact also that we were introducing so little air, that was not enough to overcome the stiction between the layers. Imagine if you have several layers of fabric pressed onto each other and sitting there for year or two, you know, they’ll have some stiction in there and that was the whole problem. It was not separating. So, finally we– the mission team, you know, was very smart enough to develop some alternate procedures where they would introduce a larger amount of air to have a little bit force to expand and slowly and slowly BEAM surely expanded.

Host: So, then how did everything perform? What was the– what were some of the–

Rajib Dasgupta: Oh, immaculately.

Host: Really?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah. Once we expanded BEAM, everything performed really well. The crew went in there and we introduced ISS air, we started exchanging ISS air. It was clean and there was no fault or anything like that. Everything was fine. Everything– in my opinion, everything behaved as it was– as it was designed. That was a really good, good story for Bigelow Aerospace because I think they did a good job in designing the whole thing.

Host: That’s a great feeling too when you work on something for so long and you open– you know, you see the crew members opening the hatch and everything’s exactly how you expected.

Rajib Dasgupta: Right. The only thing is it didn’t expand initially–

Host: That’s true.

Rajib Dasgupta: Because the original design was made to be expanded with those inflation tanks and we didn’t use it because of safety reasons, of course. ISS safety reasons. But– so, there was a little bit of trial and error in the expansion. Once it expanded, it behaved like it was designed. Totally.

Host: So, BEAM has its own inflation tanks that it–

Rajib Dasgupta: Eight. Eight of those tanks.

Host: OK. And that would be used if it wasn’t attached to the International Space Station? It could basically expand on itself?

Rajib Dasgupta: It could. But even on BEAM while attached to station, the whole idea was to expand it to its full shape with ISS air at minimal pressure and then you release those tank airs to expand it to its full pressure.

Host: I see. OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: So, first with ISS air slowly expanding it to its shape. At that point, there would be literally no pressure. Very little pressure inside the module. And then, once it’s fully– attains its shape, in other words, the forward to aft bulkhead has its full separation per design in the expanded state, then you release those air tanks and fully pressurize BEAM.

Host: OK. Very cool. What inside– inside, were there experiments, I guess, to– you know, like you said, this is a technology demonstration, so what were some of the things in the planning phase to test the technology? What equipment was used?

Rajib Dasgupta: Well, primarily we had four different kinds of sensors. One was– one primary set of sensors was measuring the radiation environment inside BEAM. The other two set of– one– another set of sensor was there to measure the deployment loads. In other words, how much load the BEAM bulkhead got imparted when it was deploying. So, obviously that sensor was not required after deployment. That was just to collect the deployment data. And then another one was– is– the sensor is to generate orbital debris data. Debris. Micrometeoroid orbital debris impacts. Now, interestingly enough, BEAM is in a position on ISS where the debris environment is pretty benign, so we don’t expect to get a lot of debris hits, but the researchers still found this data interesting.

So, we put that sensor in there and then there were some thermal sensors also to measure the temperature environment inside.

Host: That’s right.

Rajib Dasgupta: So, essentially, everything to characterize the structure and the radiation environment. Structure and radiation environment.

Host: That’s interesting about the micrometeoroid impacts. I wouldn’t have thought about it before, but like you said, it’s on the aft end, the back end of the Space Station. So, you’ve got the Node-3 is right in the way of all the stuff. OK.

Rajib Dasgupta: It has its own natural shielding from Node-3. That’s right.

Host: OK, but you’re still getting pretty good data then, right?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yes. I believe we are getting very good data and performance of BEAM overall has been very, very good. I mean from a condensation or, you know, regular structural integrity standpoint, it’s been very, very good. And, actually, Jay– you know from Gerald Valle that ISS has decided to extend BEAM’s life.

Host: That’s right.

Rajib Dasgupta: Beyond its two-year operation life.

Host: That’s right. Nice little foreshadowing there because we’re about to talk to Gerard next. So, this is pretty cool. All right. So, thanks so much for coming on Rajib. I just wanted to– before I kind of wrap up, I wanted to say, you know, what– I wanted to ask what was– how long were you with the BEAM project before you moved on to this new role?

Rajib Dasgupta: You know, I was there– I was the first to be employed with BEAM or work with BEAM and so I was there right from April 2010 when the first proposal came. So, I was leading that whole feasibility assessment effort and everything and then I saw it until pretty much deployment and on-orbit operation. So–

Host: All right.

Rajib Dasgupta: So, I pretty much followed the project through until it got installed in ISS and started operating safely.

Host: So, you saw the whole thing then, right?

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, basically I saw the whole thing. Yeah.

Host: All right. Well, hey, you’re the perfect person to have on this, right, because you saw the whole history of it. So, I really appreciate you coming on today. Next, we’ll talk to Gerard about some of the current projects and, like you foreshadowed, some of the future of BEAM. So, again, Rajib, thank you so much.

Rajib Dasgupta: Yeah, thanks.

Host: All right. Gerard, thanks for coming on the show today. I’m glad we could actually make the time to talk about BEAM, especially– so, we just had a conversation with Rajib Dasgupta about the history, but now you’re the current project manager, right?

Gerard Valle: Correct.

Host: But you’ve been a part of, you know, BEAM for a while. You started as a structures lead, right?

Gerard Valle: Yes, struct and mech system manager.

Host: OK. Very cool. All right. So, why don’t we– since Rajib kind of covered the history of BEAM and kind of where it started and all the way through its deployment, why don’t we start with just what is BEAM because I don’t think we’ve kind of covered that quite yet.

Gerard Valle: Yeah, so Bigelow– I mean BEAM stands for Bigelow Expandable Activity Module. It’s basically an expandable module, also sometimes called inflatable, but it has currently birthed to Node-3 aft on ISS. It was launched on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket back in April of 2016 and it was birthed and deployed in May of 2016 and it’s currently a technology demonstration, you know, experiment with a two-year certified life. And there’s currently an effort to extend the life of BEAM to the end of ISS life as well as utilize BEAM as a stowage module.

Host: Oh, wow. OK. Lots going on. So, after it was deployed, it kind of went through a couple of these tests, right, where it was– the whole point of BEAM was as kind of a test module, right, to kind of test this technology.

Gerard Valle: Right. So, when they first put it on orbit they, you know, did leak checks and made sure that it checked out fine and then the crew ingressed and they spent a couple days putting in a suite of sensors, you know, that can measure temperature, you know, pressure, they can measure micrometeoroid orbital debris impacts, thermal temperatures I think I mentioned already, and then also radiation. So, radiation performance.

Host: Very good. Is some of the data being analyzed right now or do you have some kind of oversight of how it performs right now?

Gerard Valle: Yes. We basically get periodic data reports. The crew ingresses periodic and goes in and grabs some of the data. It gets downlinked and then we process a lot of that data and then we produce quarterly reports that get sent back to NASA headquarters.

Host: Oh, nice. So, it’s still going on then. How long is– how long will the astronauts be doing that?

Gerard Valle: So, it’s got a two-year certified life, so the plan was to go through probably May, June of 2018, but then ISS has shown an interest of actually– you know, they’re running into some stowage, you know, potential stowage issues come up with some new racks coming on board, so they’re looking for a little additional space and they’re looking at utilizing BEAM to offload some of the stowage, you know, constraints. And so, yeah, we’re currently looking at that and then once that happens, then we’ll just continue taking data, being as it’s already up there and you’ve already got the instrumentation in place.

Host: Yeah, why not? You have the two-year certified life, but then they’ve assessed that, yeah, it can stay there longer and serve as a great place to store things.

Gerard Valle: Yep. They’re currently undergoing the stress analysis and fracture and fatigue analysis to extend that life, but things actually look pretty good from the initial assessments.

Host: Very cool. OK. So, when you’re looking at BEAM, I mean this– the whole concept of an expandable module is very different from the modules that are currently on the station. What are some of the essential differences between, you know, your regular module– let’s just say the Destiny– Destiny Module– the US laboratory and BEAM, what are the essential differences?

Gerard Valle: So, the big difference is it’s expandable, so, you know, it takes a lower fairing, you know, a smaller volume to launch it. So, we know this was able to be launched in the trunk of Falcon 9, you know, Dragon and, you know, then expanded to a full diameter. And so, for a long-term space mission, you can actually, you know, launch a larger core and then expand that to a much larger module. So, really it’s the expandable portion and then, you know, most of your– like your Destiny model module is made out of metallic structure, all metallic for the most part, and then BEAM actually has a metallic, you know, portion as well as fabric structure, you know, so that helps with the expansion.

Host: All right. OK, cool. So, is it– is the expandable module lighter? Is it kind of the same weight? Is it– I’m imagining since it’s smaller, it must be lighter, right?

Gerard Valle: Well, once you expand it, you know, it, you know, becomes much larger. The micrometeoroid orbital debris protection system, that’s usually one of your more heavy, you know, layers, because, you know, it’s– you know, you have the same requirement. And so, you know, you’re not seeing great mass savings. What you do see is mass over volume–

Host: I see.

Gerard Valle: You know, savings, and so you can basically launch a smaller volume and then get bigger once you’re on orbit and so your mass and volume ratios are better than your traditional, you know, aluminum modules.

Host: There you go. So, it’s not just this fabric module that expands in space. There are layers. There are intricate layers in this module, right?

Gerard Valle: Absolutely. So, I can’t really, you know, talk about the BEAM layers as they’re, you know, proprietary, what I can talk about is like TransHab, you know, BEAM was– as Rajib mentioned was based off of TransHab and TransHab had a shell construction, you know, with a variety of layers. So, there’s an inner layer to protect the bladder. The bladder keeps the gas in. There’s a structural restraint layer, which is kind of like the leather of a football. I mean high strength, of course, you see much higher loads.

Host: Oh yeah.

Gerard Valle: And then, of course you have your micrometeoroid orbital debris layers, which are offset, and then of course you have your thermal protection layers, which are passive– you know, it’s a passive thermal protection system. And then, finally, for low-Earth orbit, you have the outermost layer, which is the atomic oxygen protection layer.

Host: OK. All right. So, each layer has a very, very specific purpose, right?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, we actually looked at trying to combine some of these layers–

Host: Oh yeah.

Gerard Valle: And it– you know, it– there were inefficiencies. So, I think, yeah, they each have to serve their purpose and serve them well.

Host: There you go. OK. So, I mean one of the main things about being an expandable module is the expansion itself. So, how does an expandable module expand? Like how did BEAM expand?

Gerard Valle: So, it’s, you know, relatively straightforward. You basically, you know, you release it so, you know, it has some type of, you know, restraint system that keeps it from expanding, you know, during an ascent. Once you get on orbit, you basically cut those restraints and so now it’s free to expand and then you just start putting gas in, which in this case is air, breathable air, and then of course that– the air, you know, creates the pressure inside and that, you know, drives it out until it finally takes its final shape.

Host: Interesting. OK. So– and that happened once it was actually attached on the station, right? You attached it first and then started pumping air into it.

Gerard Valle: Yep, exactly.

Host: OK. Very cool. So, inside, once it actually– once it actually expanded– I don’t remember– I believe– was it Jeff Williams was the first crew member to enter the BEAM?

Gerard Valle: I believe so.

Host: Yeah, he said it was a little bit chilly, which he’s a native Wisconsin, so obviously he was able to take it pretty easy, but inside, was it– what was revealed once he actually went inside? What’s the inside structure look like?

Gerard Valle: So, you can see the inner liner, you know, obviously that’s, you know, the bulk of the structure, but then you also have the metallic bulkheads, the fore and aft, and then of course there’s a stabilization structure going between fore and aft and so you can see those four bars going between the two bulkheads. And of course, you know, at the back towards the aft portion, they had all the pressurization tanks, like scuba tanks, and stowage locker and basic shear panels that help carry loads during the initial launch.

Host: OK. So, all of that was for launch, but do they just stay there after it’s deployed, or do they serve a purpose, like, on the day to day?

Gerard Valle: So, a lot of that hardware has since been removed. The pressurization tanks, the little stowage locker– most of the big stuff to make way for the stowage that I mentioned earlier.

Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. So, that’s– so, that’s– OK. They’ve kind of cleared this out so you can actually stow it. How– is there a plan for how things are going to be stowed? Are you going to use, like, elastic straps or– I mean because– and the inside is just like this open shell, right?

Gerard Valle: Sure. Well, there’s– I mentioned there are some bars that kind of go between the fore and aft bulkheads and so you can actually tie to those bars. So, they have what they call M1 and M3 bags and so they’re already actually have them in place empty, tied into BEAM on the outer portion and then the crew can still ingress in the middle and then of course start putting stuff inside those bags.

Host: OK. Very cool. All right. So, the whole– again, to reiterate, BEAM is a test. You know, they were testing this technology on the space station because it was a great place to do so, right? The space station provided power, provided air to actually test the structure of BEAM, this experiment module, right? So, what are– so, you kind of already alluded to some of the tests that were going on, but what did that process look like? Did– were they constantly taking readings or was it more like, you know, check everything and then close the door?

Gerard Valle: Well, I mean, they initially did the initial checks and so that took a little while and then they closed the door and then they go back in every, you know, two to three months and then pull data. They do microbial swabs, air sampling, and so, you know, that’s all, you know, great. The, you know, the radiation they had some, you know, passive little, you know, sensors that just stay on BEAM and so they have to go in there and take them back to the ground. They have other ones that look like a little thumb drive and those are more active and those are always on and measuring and so you can actually download that data but in real time you have to downlink it and then process it. And then as well as the temperature data, that– they, you know, download that as well and downlink it. And then of course the impact detection system, you know, that is a more complex process where they actually downlink that data and then some NASA engineers out at Langley process that data and they were able to triangulate and tell where, you know, the module got impacted, whether it was inside or outside and the amount of energy that they expect, you know, hit the module.

Host: OK. And they’re still analyzing that or they finding some things that maybe they want to change for the next BEAM or the next expandable module?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, they’re– it’s– like I say, it’s an ongoing effort and we plan to keep it going once we extend the life and make it a stowage module.

Host: OK. Were some of these instruments taken up on BEAM and then once it expanded they just kind of stayed there, or was it more of the astronauts came in and started placing these things around and what parts of BEAM actually?

Gerard Valle: So, there was a– on the aft bulkhead, which the whole thing was compressed when it started, and so they had some accelerometers that they put on the aft bulkhead and so during inflation they can actually measure how it accelerated during expansion. All of the other sensors were set up separately and the crew went in and then outfitted the module once it was fully expanded and pressurized.

Host: OK. So, right now it’s– I’m trying to imagine where it is on station. You said the aft bulkhead. It’s actually attached to the aft side– the back-facing side of Node-3. Is that right?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, Node-3 aft, correct.

Host: Yeah, and that’s where the exercise equipment is, that’s kind of where the Cupola is. They’ve got another storage module there actually right now, the PMM, right?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, so they actually have to move the ARED out of the way to ingress into BEAM.

Host: Oh, really?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, so that’s part of the ingress, you know, plan.

Host: Oh, OK. Cool. So, would it be– the ingress plan, does that mean– does that mean ARED is going to have to be moved every time they want to enter BEAM or store something or are things going to be kind of shifted around?

Gerard Valle: No, that’s the nominal plan. They move ARED before they go into BEAM.

Host: Oh, every time? OK. OK. So, it’s kind of like long-term storage then, right? It wouldn’t be any kind of short-term thing?

Gerard Valle: Correct.

Host: Yeah. OK, that makes a lot of sense. OK. So, now BEAM is kind of– you said about to wrap up its testing. We’re looking at kind of a mid-2018 timeframe, but then, you know, you said it’s going to stay there and be a storage facility for– on the International Space Station. Is there– is there an end date to that or will it be kind of as long as possible?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, exactly. It’s as long as possible. So, obviously once you– once you, you know, put everything in there, you’d like to leave it there as long as you can. So, the ideal goal is through the end of station life and it’ll be dependent on the analysis that comes back from Bigelow Aerospace.

Host: All right. Very cool. All right. So, the point of– again, to reiterate– the point of BEAM is a test. It’s to take a look at expandable technology and see what else can we do with it. And I know there are some plans, right, because this is a– this is a technology that was originally developed at NASA and licensed by Bigelow, correct?

Gerard Valle: Correct.

Host: OK. So, they have plans for this expandable tech. What’s– what are they looking to do?

Gerard Valle: So, the big thing on their– or near-term thing on their, you know, plans is the B330. So, BEAM is about 16 cubic meters. The B330 is 330 cubic meters, so much larger, you know, multiple, you know, levels. So, it’s really, you know, exciting. It’s basically the similar size to what the original TransHab design was. And then, of course, they’re looking at all different– a lot of different options for the B330. Possibly putting one on the International Space Station. It has a precursor for other mission– advanced exploration missions, as well as looking at it for lunar surface, cislunar, as well as Mars and transit to Mars.

Host: Wow. I mean I imagine that’s– even when it’s not expanded, that still has to be a pretty heavy thing to launch into space. What kind of vehicle would take that up?

Gerard Valle: I mean, you know, you could use any shuttle class, so like anything that’s as big as a shuttle. So, you know, the, you know, the SLS could take it up, actually could bring it up on the smaller SLS. The Block 1, Block 2, and then of course if you have larger vehicles then, you know, that, you know, makes things even easier or you have alternate vehicles or modules you can launch.

Host: Very cool. So, you can attach part of it to the International Space Station, there’s a chance for it to be somewhere in low-Earth orbit, but then there’s planetary versions too. You can actually design an expandable module for a planetary surface then or like a lunar surface?

Gerard Valle: Absolutely.

Host: Ah, very cool.

Gerard Valle: Yeah, so there’s actually– as part of the next step, they’re actually looking at, you know, utilization on ISS and utilization on the lunar surface and how the different architectures. At the Bigelow Aerospace website, they actually show, you know, lunar, you know, multiple modules on the lunar surface.

Host: OK. Very cool. And there’s– yeah, no, there’s a– definitely a case for having this expandable technology as a habitat that can go on the lunar surface or Mars, but have you worked with some designs in the past and– because you said you were working with TransHab as well too, right?

Gerard Valle: Sure. I was the shell lead back during TransHab and then of course I worked other, you know, smaller modules, helping develop that technology throughout the years. So, it’s been a big part of my career and a lot of fun and interesting and it’s very exciting to see a private company, you know, utilize it and launch multiple modules. The Genesis modules back in ’06 and ’07, you know, summer of ’06 and ’07. And then, of course, to be a part of BEAM and actually see it, you know, launched and utilized on the International Space Station is very excited– very exciting. And I’m especially excited about B330 because I would just love to see a module of that scale, you know, on the International Space Station or, you know, any of these other architectures that we’ve discussed.

Host: Yeah. A giant expandable module with multiple floors– I don’t know what you would call it, multiple layers, multiple levels– that’s pretty cool to actually work on something like that. So, as the– as the– you said the shell lead. Is this the outer– were you focusing on a single layer when you were working on that structure or were you kind of doing the whole outside, I guess?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, it was for all of the fabric structure. So, everything from the inner liner that I described– bladder, restraint layer, MMOD, thermal protection system, you know, as well as the atomic oxygen layer for low-Earth orbit.

Host: OK. Has a lot of the technology kind of remained the same or has there– has there been significant improvements as you’ve been working on it over time?

Gerard Valle: Well, you know, NASA has done, you know, some improvements, but really, you know, Bigelow Aerospace, they’ve invested, you know, quite a bit of money and improved a lot of areas and so– I mean they’re– they’ve actually made it a, you know, a flight-proven, you know, man-rated TRL 9 system. So, yes, absolutely lots of improvements and great work out there at Bigelow Aerospace.

Host: Very cool. Is there any plans for NASA to use expandable technology? I mean– I guess either working with Bigelow, because you said maybe Bigelow can develop something and then NASA can purchase that service, but is there any work on the NASA end?

Gerard Valle: So, I think NASA’s still in the evaluation stage. You know, I know they have that next step that I mentioned earlier and so, you know, there’s Bigelow Aerospace as well as other private companies that are looking at expandable technology and so they’re gathering data and seeing where it best fits in the architectures, but there’s no firm plans, like, you know, plan to put an inflatable on, you know, the lunar surface right now, but there’s still– it’s still in the trade space, so that’s exciting.

Host: Very cool. So, how about the relationship between NASA and Bigelow? I’m trying to understand just– so, you’re working– you’re the project manager for BEAM right now and working with Bigelow, is it on a daily basis? Are they– are you working with their engineers or how does that relationship work?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, we have a biweekly meeting, you know, for– we call it a biweekly, you know, it’s a technology meeting between Bigelow and NASA as well as all the different areas. And so, you know, we work down and in-between those meetings we’ll have, you know, off– especially with the stowage module, we’ll meet with them– you know, a lot of it’s just emails or tele– phone calls and stuff, but there’s a lot going on and so, yeah, we’ll meet with them periodically and, you know, good engineers and good people to work with for the last, you know, several years.

Host: Very cool. Where is– where’s Bigelow based out of where they’re working on some of this technology?

Gerard Valle: They’re North Las Vegas is where their base is.

Host: OK. Very cool. Do you travel out there sometimes or is it mostly telecons?

Gerard Valle: Not as much lately. It’s mostly telecons and sometimes they come up here, but during the actual design and development, you know, I was out there a little bit more and so it was, you know, exciting to see their facilities and the actual module come and, you know, come and developing and being built and inspected and tested. So, you know, that was great.

Host: Very cool. Do they– do they manufacture all of the tech– all of the layers and all of the parts of the– of Bigelow expandable module there in Las Vegas or is it– are the parts brought together somewhere else?

Gerard Valle: Yeah, that I’m not 100% sure. I know they do a lot there, but I’m sure they outsource some things as well.

Host: Yeah, definitely. I didn’t know if– is– are some of the layers I guess NASA technology? Is any of it developed here and then shipped out to Vegas?

Gerard Valle: No, no. They’re definitely a fully independent company and so they’re doing their own thing. You know, we will, you know, work with them if we see something that we, you know, think is a little risk or have a concern and so we’ll talk to them about that and have meetings and splinter– and work together and then of course, like I say, they’re great at solving problems. So, you know, we’ve had a great experience working with them over the last few years.

Host: Fantastic. Very exciting to see, you know, the success of BEAM so far and the fact that, yeah, let’s keep this– let’s keep this activity module there and just use it as storage and then to hear some of the plans going forward and the possibilities of this expandable tech is pretty cool. So, Gerard, I really wanted to thank you for coming on the podcast today.

Gerard Valle: Yeah, thank you. Good.

Host: Yeah, this is a nice overview of BEAM and thanks again to Rajib for coming on and kind of describing the history, kind of getting the full picture of this whole story of expandable tech. So, again, I appreciate you coming on and wish you the best of luck for the remainder of BEAM’s test up through the middle of the year.

Gerard Valle: Great. Thanks.

[ Music ]

Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So, today we talked about the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module with Gerard Valle and Rajib Dasgupta. A little bit about the history all the way through the potential future of expandable modules in space. Pretty cool stuff. If you want to know more about Bigelow Expandable Activity Module, you can go to nasa.gov/iss to get some of the latest updates on how that is working on the International Space Station. It’s right now, as Gerard said, being used as sort of a storage module and going to be on the ISS for the long haul, which is pretty cool. You can also see some updates on the International Space Station Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, just use the #askNASA on your favorite platform to submit an idea or ask a question or maybe submit a suggestion for an episode of the podcast, just like Max with an exclamation point did for this episode. Other podcasts, you can also check out other NASA podcasts like Gravity Assist hosted by Dr. Jim Green that talks about planetary science or you can talk about NASA in Silicon Valley hosted by our friends over at Ames Research Center that talk about a lot of other components on the International Space Station and are doing some pretty cool stuff on Twitch TV.

So, this podcast was recorded on February eighth and February 20th. Thanks to Alex Perryman, Dan Huot, Steve Munday, Pat Ryan, Bill Stafford and Kelly Humphries. Thanks again to Rajib Dasgupta and Gerard Valle for coming on the show. We’ll be back next week.