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Average Joe, Educator, Astronaut

Season 1Sep 15, 2017

Joe Acaba, U.S. astronaut, talks about his time in the Marine Corps and Peace Corps, his previous missions to space, and his background as a high school and middle school educator. HWHAP Episode 10.

Expedition 53-54 crewmember Joe Acaba of NASA enters the Soyuz MS-06 spacecraft during pre-launch training activities Aug. 28.

houston podcast ep10 acaba average joe educator astronaut

“Houston, We Have a Podcast” is the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, the home of human spaceflight, stationed in Houston, Texas. We bring space right to you! On this podcast, you’ll learn from some of the brightest minds of America’s space agency as they discuss topics in engineering, science, technology and more. You’ll hear firsthand from astronauts what it’s like to launch atop a rocket, live in space and re-enter the Earth’s atmosphere. And you’ll listen in to the more human side of space as our guests tell stories of behind-the-scenes moments never heard before.

Episode 10 features Joe Acaba, U.S. astronaut, who talks about his time in the Marine Corps and Peace Corps, his previous missions to space, and his background as a high school and middle school educator. Acaba launched to the International Space Station on September 12, 2017. This episode was recorded on July 10, 2017.

Houston, we have a podcast

Transcript

Gary Jordan (Host):Houston, We Have a Podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of the NASA Johnson Space Center, Episode 10: Average Joe, Educator, Astronaut. I’m Gary Jordan and I’ll be your host today. So if you’re new to the show, this is where we bring in the experts– NASA scientists, engineers, astronauts– pretty much all the folks that have the coolest information, the stuff you really want to know right on the show and will tell you more about everything NASA. So today we’re talking with Joe Acaba. He’s a U.S. astronaut, and he just launched to the International Space Station a few days ago on September 12, 2017 for his second long-duration mission aboard the orbiting complex. We talked about his time in the Marine Corps and Peace Corps, his previous missions to space, and his background as a high school and middle school educator, and a little bit about how he views the importance of being an educator in space. So with no further delay, let’s go light speed and jump right ahead to our talk with Mr. Joe Acaba. Enjoy.

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T minus five seconds and counting– mark. [ indistinct radio chatter ]

Houston, we have a podcast.

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Host: Okay, well, thanks for coming on the show today, Joe. I know you’re very busy, especially coming so close to your launch date. And like we just talked about before, you have an accelerated training program. You’re not doing the two-year thing; you’re doing six months. So you’ve kind of got a pretty jam-packed schedule, huh?

Joe Acaba:I’m glad to be here, and I’m glad we found the time, and it is– it’s a little bit unique, where usually our training flow is, depending on your experience, 18 months to 2 years, and I’ve got a whole 6 months, so it’s– time is busy, but it’s going really well.

Host: Very cool. All right, well, how do you feel about now going on your second long-duration mission? You went on your first one back in 2012, so this is kind of pretty close, right? 2012, 2017, so not bad.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, I can’t complain– five years between missions is pretty good. I know it might seem like a lot of time for some people, but I’m pretty fortunate. And I’m excited to get back up there. Every mission is different. Of course, you have different crewmates, different science experiments that are going on, so yeah, I’m pretty excited and ready to have things just a couple of months away.

Host: That’s awesome. Well, since we have you here today, we could do a full episode, which is super fortunate that we actually had this much time. I figured that we’d just go through your story– you know, all the way from when you grew up in California back to what you’re doing now and what you’re planning on doing on expedition 53-54. And then, maybe since you’re an educator, you know, maybe a little bit about education in space– what you feel about it, kind of how it’s– its importance.

Joe Acaba:Sounds good. I’ll try not to bore you too much. [ laughing ]

Host: You’re an astronaut– you cannot be boring. Anything you say is amazing.

Joe Acaba:All right, you’ll have to steer me along on this one.

Host: Okay, so I mean, growing up in California, right, so you grew up there and went to college– bachelor of science– but I remember talking to you beforehand– you were interested in– a metal shop class actually kind of influenced you– a little bit of your career and the beginning of your education, right?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, it’s funny that a lot of people will ask about your schooling and education, and what was really important in your life.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And one thing I always reflect back on were these four years of metal shop with Mr. Walters, that we all called Walt. And I stay in touch with him, and he’s now retired after– I don’t know if it was 35 years of teaching, but when you look at what we did in that metal shop class, that dude was crazy. I mean, we– I mean, you know how crazy high school kids are in general.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And kids that age don’t always make the best decisions, and now here you are– and being a former educator, when I see someone like him, who had 30 kids in a class, and they’re all doing different things in a metal shop, it was pretty amazing.

Host: You’re working with some intense equipment, right? Something could go wrong, but as an educator, you know, he had to trust you guys to do the right thing, and lead you in the right path, I guess.

Joe Acaba:He did, he– it took a lot of training before we started, but again, we had all the pieces of equipment that you would find in any metal shop. You know, lathes, they’re churning at a fast speed where you can do a lot of damage to yourself, the equipment.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:We did gas welding, we did arc welding– which I wouldn’t– I wouldn’t today give a 15 year-old kid a gas welder, let alone in a class with 30 kids.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So he did that, and then we had a foundry where we were– no kidding– we were melting stuff, and pouring it in there, and making things. And I still today– I look back and I don’t know how he did it, and for all those years. But it was one of the best experiences that I had, because I learned a lot about myself, what I’m capable of doing. And so of course, at home I– you know, I wasn’t a big mechanic type dude, but you learned a lot, but then you also had to be responsible. And you had to be accountable to yourself, and I think a lot of times we miss that and we don’t realize how responsible kids can be because we don’t give them that responsibility. And he gave it to us, and you know, we had to run with it, and I’m glad to still be alive after that class.

Host: Yeah, a lot of tangible lessons coming from that class for sure, too. You’re talking responsibility– I wouldn’t think about that, but it makes total sense. You’re working with heavy equipment. You’ve got to make sure you have the responsibility in yourself to do the right thing.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, he can’t watch 30 kids at one time, and so I think what he did, and what I took as an educator, is you kind of start with small steps. You know, you’ve got to guide the student, but at some point you’ve got to let them go and hopefully use the information that you gave them. And he was one of the best teachers ever at doing that and what he allowed us to do.

Host: Yeah, sounds like it’s a lot about trust, too.

Joe Acaba:Yup, yeah– and being crazy. I think he was a little crazy. [ laughter ] no, but we all loved him.

Host: A little trust, a little crazy.

Joe Acaba:Yeah. But you know, he was one of the more strict teachers that I had, but it was in a way that you knew it was for your own benefit. Even back then, you understood why he was doing what he did.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But I learned a lot, of course, while I was in that class, but then as an educator, I would often look back at how he was and try to imitate him as much as I could. So I owe him a lot.

Host: Yeah, so I mean, was it his style of teaching, was it him as a teacher that made you really like the metal shop class, like you said? Or was it the material, or maybe a combination of both?

Joe Acaba:It was probably a combination of both, but I could see where if it was a different teacher that didn’t allow you to work the way we did, I might not have enjoyed it, where I could see a teacher that said, “okay, you’re only going to do this, and I’m going to watch you do things every step of the way,” it might not have been as enjoyable, where he gave us a lot of freedom. And I think that was pretty appealing at that age, to have that freedom and that responsibility that somebody has given to you.

Host: Right. So I mean, from there you went to university of California Santa Barbara and graduated with a bachelor’s of science in geology. How do you go from metal shop to a science bachelor’s?

Joe Acaba:Well, I think the geology thing came from how we grew up. One thing that– every summer we would go camping. That was just kind of our thing, maybe because–

Host: Well, the outdoors, yeah.

Joe Acaba:You know, it was pretty free to do that, so you know, I’m sure my parents enjoyed that, where we weren’t hopping on a plane going to Europe. So that was not something we could do. But going camping was relatively inexpensive. But it was always fun to get outdoors, and always enjoyed that. And growing up, of course, just being out in the natural environment. So you go to college and think about all the different things you could do. Geology just sounded like, hey, this is cool. I get to study stuff that’s outside.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And now I can look at, hey, why does the mountain look like that? Why is the river here? And so geology just seemed like the perfect match for me.

Host: That’s awesome. In school, what kinds of assignments did you have in college? What kind of assignments did you have that really kind of stick with you?

Joe Acaba:Again, I think some of the best classes were when we were outside doing field mapping and things like that, where it’s not always the most fun having to identify 100 different minerals or rocks and go, “okay, this is your final exam.” It was kind of cool that you could do that, and it was fun being able to look in the microscope and being able to identify different minerals, but for me personally, it was just being outside and kind of walking around and looking at what’s out there, looking inside the rocks, what might you find inside the rocks. And being a geologist, it’s such a wide field that there are some folks that like to focus in on the small, and I just enjoyed more of the big and being outside.

Host: So after that, you went for a master’s in geology, correct? So you wanted to continue your education. What made you want to do that?

Joe Acaba:Well, I– you know, it seems like I wanted to continue. Like I tell people, I didn’t want to continue after high school. My dad kind of forced me into going to college.

Host: Oh!

Joe Acaba:–where I just, again, being in metal shop, I was happy working with my hands.

Host: Yeah, you wanted to do the tech stuff.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, I wanted to go tech. I thought that I had the best plan– I’m going to go do solar panels, and I’m going to go straight to a tech school. And my dad wasn’t having that at the time, so after a few arguments, he beat me down enough– not physically, but he won that battle, and he convinced me to do one year of college and said, “hey, just try it out, and if you hate it, that’s cool. You know, at least you tried it.” And so I really appreciate that push that he gave me, because otherwise I may not have done that. And then after I finished my degree, I thought about joining the U.S. peace corps, but again, I keep going back to education– not because I was an educator, but just because of the value of it.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:One of my instructors, he told me about a grant that was out there to get my master’s degree.

Host: Oh.

Joe Acaba:And you know, I was kind of tired of being in school. You know, you’ve pretty much been in school your whole life.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So you’re ready to do something different, but he told me about this that was out there, so I ended up getting my master’s at the university of Arizona.

Host: So it was through that grant, then.

Joe Acaba:It was through that that helped pay for it.

Host: Yeah, yeah.

Joe Acaba:And again, you know, it took an educator to kind of push me in that direction. So you know, he may not know– I’ve talked to him a few times, but he may not know the impact that that had. And going to get your master’s degree was– you know, of course you learn a lot, but it’s those little things that help you get where you are today.

Host: Yeah. So did that help you– the next step was that you went into the marine corps? Was that the next step?

Joe Acaba:Well, I did the marine corps while I was doing my undergraduate studies.

Host: Oh, I see, okay.

Joe Acaba:So I got– had some buddies of mine, and we were hanging out and we thought, “hey, this’ll be a cool idea. Let’s join the marine corps!” And so none of us backed out, and so–

Host: All right! Good group of friends there.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, so we ended up– I actually went to boot camp with a couple of friends of mine, which was– it was pretty cool, and of course we’re still great friends.

Host: Good.

Joe Acaba:And so I’ve done quite a few things in my life that my parents don’t approve of, and of course, joining the marine corps was not one of their favorite choices that I made. But it all worked out great, and yeah, so that all happened while I was in college.

Host: All right. So that was– in the marine corps you were a hydrogeologist?

Joe Acaba:Oh, nope, so–

Host: Oh, wow, I’m getting all of this wrong.

Joe Acaba:That’s okay– it’s a complicated story and I can barely keep it straight. So when I did the marine corps reserve, we ended up– we were working in communication to field wiremen, you know, doing that type of work. And it just happened that the six years as a marine corps reserve ended when I finished up with my master’s degree– it took me a while to get through school. And so when I left with my master’s degree, that’s when I worked out as a hydrogeologist in California.

Host: I see, okay. So that sounds like such an interesting job. What is a hydrogeologist? What do you do?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, so it– you’ve got the hydro in there, so you’re dealing with water. And then you’ve got earth stuff going on, but I always knew that– even when I was thinking about the tech world, doing solar energy– I’ve always been kind of environmental related.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:So I ended up working with an environmental consulting firm. So when you’re a hydrogeologist, a lot of times you’re looking at how does groundwater flow, what kind of contaminants does it have. And being in southern California, there’s a lot of it. When you think about the industry that was going on back in the ’50s and ’60s and things like that, that there’s quite a bit of contamination out there. So a lot of our job was mapping that, and then how do you remediate it, how do you clean the water, how do you clean the soil that’s there? So a lot of geologists, they may go into the energy industry, but I kind of went more in the environmental area.

Host: Very cool. So I feel like I’m going to mess this up again, so I’m just going to ask.

Joe Acaba:Might as well.

Host: So what happened next? I know there’s peace corps, but then also manager of a Caribbean research center. I don’t know which one came first, but they both sound amazing.

Joe Acaba:Yep, you got it right. So I worked as a hydrogeologist for– I don’t know, maybe it was a year and a half, two years.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:And I was looking at the peace corps when I was doing my undergraduate work, and I actually had applied for the peace corps before Mr. Sylvester directed me over to getting my master’s degree. And so I kind of put the peace corps on hold, but it was always something I still wanted to do. I don’t know, I just– I don’t know– wanted to do this public service, and thought it was an important agency. So after working for a while, it just seemed like a good time to pursue that, so just quit the job and became a volunteer.

Host: Wow.

Joe Acaba:Yeah.

Host: Bold move.

Joe Acaba:Again, disappointing the parents every step of the way. That was not what they wanted to hear, that I was going to become a volunteer.

Host: Yeah. So what was it about the peace corps that really drove you, and then what did you do when you were in there?

Joe Acaba:You know, maybe it was recruiters coming out and talking about the work that the peace corps does. It’s a pretty unique agency that president Kennedy started. And it kind of has a few different goals, but it’s to go out to third world countries and to help them with the needs that they identify. So it’s not us going there and saying, “hey, you’ve got to fix this,” but them identifying projects and requesting volunteers to go there to work on those. But it’s also a great opportunity for the U.S. to send, you know, these young people out there– not that all are young, but– you know, as representatives of the U.S. so every peace corps volunteer is like an ambassador that’s out there representing our country. So that’s– that seemed pretty appealing, and of course, when you come back, sharing that story. And I worked in environmental education.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:So the environmental part, you know, I’d kind of established with what I was doing, and education to me was– in terms of being an educator was new, but it also sounded appealing. And I think after doing that, it kind of led me to being an educator.

Host: Okay, so it was– it sounded like it’s a little bit of the peace corps, but then also, you know, you keep referring to your experiences with Walt and Mr. Sylvester, these key people in your life that kind of inspired you. And I guess, in a sense, would you say it’s kind of– you wanted to kind of emulate that and you wanted to be that person maybe?

Joe Acaba:I guess, you know, now that you say that, but it wasn’t like I–

Host: I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Joe Acaba:No, no, but of course– and I think it’s the way with most students and most people.

Host: Sure.

Joe Acaba:You don’t realize what is going on at the time. It’s– you know, I never would’ve thought while I was in metal shop, “man, this is changing my life. This is really cool,” or, “hey, thanks, dr. Sylvester, for sending me to get my master’s.” You just– it’s one of those where I think that we don’t always realize the opportunities that are there. So either you have to be smart enough or lucky enough to seize those opportunities.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And I think in my case, it was– I was lucky enough to have those people that did that. And so again, with the peace corps, just was another step in the right direction. And just learned a lot that helped me as an educator, and I think helped me a lot as an astronaut today.

Host: Wow. Awesome. Yeah, it really only takes one. I mean, a similar story with me. It was Mr. McKosky. He was a film and TV teacher, and he– like, I took his film and TV class and I was like, “this– I want to do this. Whatever it takes to do this, this is what I want to do.” And it was the same thing– he trusted the students with all this expensive equipment, and we just went out and made some great films, and cool stuff. And it kind of helped me out.

Joe Acaba:Well, give him that shout-out, and hopefully he’ll be listening to this. That’s cool.

Host: I hope so, I hope so. So you know, you said that’s what led you to be an educator, and you started as a high school educator, right? Is that correct?

Joe Acaba:Yep, I did one year as a 9th and 10th grade integrated science teacher.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:And then ended up moving to the middle school, and that– that’s a whole– we could probably spend a couple hours talking about middle school education, but to me, I think every teacher is different and teachers feel comfortable with different age groups. And I didn’t think I was going to enjoy the middle school as much as I did.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:It’s a crazy time, you know. For parents that have middle school aged kids, they know what they’re– you know–

Host: There’s a lot going through at that age.

Joe Acaba:There’s a lot going on with those kids, and you know, a lot of kids at that age, they don’t know– as they shouldn’t– what they want to do in life, but some of the decisions you make early on can really dictate that initial path that you might take. And so I feel like there’s a lot of room during those ages to motivate kids to enjoy school. And of course, I like the sciences and math, so trying to make that fun and exciting so they don’t leave middle school going, “I hate math,” or those kids that say, “I’m terrible at math.” Well, it’s probably because you haven’t had somebody that taught it in a way that you could understand.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And so I tell people, “hey, it’s not always you.” And it could be that the teacher just didn’t get it quite right for you. And we’re all different, so it’s just finding that way to motivate a student.

Host: Yeah, it was the same way, right? I had my fair share of science teachers that were just– they literally put up in the projectors, they just put up pages of the textbook, and we just had to write down the notes. And it was wildly boring, but it was such an interesting subject, right? It was biology for me, and it just didn’t work. But the next year, I had a chemistry teacher who lit stuff on fire day one.

Joe Acaba:Yeah.

Host: And I was like, “this is awesome! Chemistry is amazing!” So you’re right, it’s just– so what did you to really try to get them to like math and science?

Joe Acaba:You know, I think it’s as much hands on as you can do.

Host: That’s what I would think, yeah. Light stuff on fire.

Joe Acaba:But– yeah, you know, people light stuff on fire in the classroom, kids are going to love you. Principal might not love you, but– you know, but it is hard being an educator today. And I think it’s always been hard because you’re always torn between– you have standardized testing, and you have to have your kids at a certain level, but you also want to make it exciting for the kids. So it’s kind of finding that balance and trying to make it as exciting as you can. And every kid likes science. I mean, we all– every kid as a kid– I mean, we’re all scientists.

Host: Yeah, curious, in a way.

Joe Acaba:You’re curious, you know, you like playing with bugs, you want to be outside– whatever. I mean, science is just cool, and–

Host: It is.

Joe Acaba:But over the years, I think as you go through school, if everything you do in science is out of a book, it’s no longer fun. And then somehow we lose this kind of love for science. So as much as you can do as an educator to keep it fun and to be that teacher that a kid will look back and go, “you know, that was a cool class. I learned a lot, but we had fun doing it.”

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:I think that’s the key.

Host: Those are always the moments I go back to with my science classes– from physics, taking a slinky outside in the hallway and just shaking it around and seeing how waves work, you know, instead of just describing waves or reading from a book. Let’s shake it and figure it out, you know? It’s those little moments that really, I think, are fun. They’re really cool. You’re outside the classroom actually doing stuff. And it sounds like you were kind of the same way, especially with the metal shop class. Actually hands on– you want to touch stuff, you want to do stuff.

Joe Acaba:You’ve got to do it, yeah.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:Books are great. They have their place, but you’ve got to be hands on. And that’s always the challenge I found with math, is that math takes a little bit more work to make it hands on and to make it exciting. It’s– if you like math, it’s cool and it’s exciting, but if you’re somebody that doesn’t like math, it’s hard to make it exciting.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And so I think the exciting part is when a student understands a concept and you’ve helped them kind of get to that point. But nothing worse than having a kid leave your class that says, “man, I hate math, and I’m terrible at math.” You know, then you’re just like, “man, I didn’t do that kid right.” So it is a challenge. Some classes, of course, you’re teaching about space or teaching about dinosaurs. Every kid loves that, so that’s kind of easy. But it’s those other subjects that aren’t always as much fun that are more challenging.

Host: Yeah. I mean, I guess sometimes it comes down to just natural skill in a way, right? So sometimes it just clicks, and sometimes it takes a little extra to click, and sometimes it never clicks, so– that’s always a bummer, though.

Joe Acaba:But hopefully you can make it– I think everybody has the ability. It just might take a little bit more work on the part of the teacher and the part of the student.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:Of course, some things are naturally easy, but if they’re not, that’s okay. But you can– I always tell people, “you don’t need to be the smartest dude out there, but you can always be the hardest working person out there. Nobody can stop you from working hard.” And sometimes it just takes more work than you may want to put in at the time.

Host: That’s true.

Joe Acaba:Especially at that age.

Host: Especially at that age, for sure. So I mean, you taught middle school for– and you said you enjoyed it. You taught it for four years. It was around this time that you applied to be an astronaut?

Joe Acaba:Yep, so I was teaching middle school, and you know, loving every minute of it, and just really felt like education is where I wanted to be.

Host: Cool.

Joe Acaba:Just loved the job, loved the kids, loved the community. And one day, a teacher came in and told me that she saw something about NASA wanting to hire some educators to become astronauts. I go, “you know, that sounds interesting.” As a kid, the Apollo missions were kind of going on, and that was exciting. And I liked reading science fiction and all of that, so– you know, I think a lot of kids think of becoming an astronaut someday, because it is cool.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:You know, going to space is pretty awesome, and so–

Host: You can say from experience.

Joe Acaba:Yep, it is cool. But a lot of times you think of astronauts and you go, “well, there’s a few people that get to do that, and it might’ve been my dream, but it just didn’t work out.”

Host: Sure.

Joe Acaba:And so when I heard about NASA wanting to hire some educators, I just went online and started reading more about it and what the requirements were. And I just kind of looked at my resume, kind of like we’ve done, and looked at what I had done, and looked at what NASA was looking for, and I go, “man, I’m a pretty decent match, so let me go ahead and apply.” And again, you can’t win if you don’t play. So I just went ahead and submitted my application, and was fortunate enough to get hired.

Host: That’s amazing, awesome. So then you kind of transitioned into Houston, started training– next thing you know, you’re on a shuttle mission, right? Your first shuttle mission was 2009?

Joe Acaba:Yep, pretty crazy.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:You go from middle school teacher to now going into space. And it was very, very cool to be able to go on a shuttle flight. And you know, you go from being a teacher, and now when you join NASA as an astronaut, you’re starting from step one, so now you’re becoming a student.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And so that was a little bit of a challenge, just because there’s so much you have to learn. Again, astronauts, we come from different fields. Some are medical doctors. I’m a geologist. And so we all have to learn these basic skills that– you know, some are more challenging than others. You know, you have to learn how to do a spacewalk. You have to learn how to fly the robotic arm. You just have got to learn about orbital mechanics. I mean, it’s like, “what are you talking about?” You’ve got to learn how to fly a jet. I’ve never flown before.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And so there’s all these things that you have to learn in a short period of time, and it’s not easy being a student. And I think I’ll be a better teacher someday having gone back as an adult and becoming a student again, and knowing how hard it can be.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Especially because training, astronaut training– and we talked about this with Randy Bresnik, actually, a couple episodes ago, but astronaut training is intense. It’s– you have to be an all-around, I guess, jack of all– not even jack of all trades– kind of a master of all trades, in a sense. I mean, you are working with people on the ground all the time who have your back, but at the same time you have to know a lot. You have to know a lot of different things.

Joe Acaba:You do. It’s– that’s part of what makes it exciting, and part of what makes it challenging is that you’re not an expert in any one field.

Host: Sure.

Joe Acaba:You have all these smart people here at johnson space center that are the experts, but we have to know enough about each one of those so that we can support whatever the mission may be. And so, you know, you can go one day– hey, you know, we’re doing a podcast and we’re talking about this, and then on Friday I’ll be in the neutral buoyancy lab practicing for spacewalks. You know, I’ll be in a simulation tomorrow with the robotic arm. And so you’re kind of jumping around, going back and forth to different things, and so it’s putting all of that together, and just being able to process it is– it is the challenge.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But it is fun.

Host: So neutral buoyancy laboratory, you’re going to be practicing– that’s where you go– it’s underwater, and they call it neutrally buoyant because I guess you’re kind of floating and sinking at the same time, is the phenomenon, in a sense?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, so it’s a big swimming pool we have. I mean, it’s a big swimming pool we have. And so there’s a mock-up, kind of a model of the international space station there, and we get into space suits that have been modified a little bit, but they’re pressurized just like a regular suit would be. And we have these great divers that will kind of get you in the water, and kind of move weights and foam around to get you to where you are just floating in the water at the right spot.

Host: Yeah, kind of like suspended.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, kind of suspended in there. And that’s the closest we can get to being in a microgravity environment. And when they do a good job and you’re working, you can let go and you don’t go up, you don’t go down. You’re just right there like you would be in space. So it’s– that is another team effort, when you look at what it takes to get us in that pool to practice for the spacewalks. But it’s pretty cool.

Host: Yeah, so I mean, you’re going in there on Friday. I’m sure you’ve been in there plenty of times before, but also, on your space shuttle mission back in 2009, you did two spacewalks. You got well over 12 hours of spacewalking time– almost 13. So how does that compare– neutral buoyancy laboratory spacewalking to your actual experience?

Joe Acaba:It’s as good as we can get, and it’s really good. So on Friday coming up is actually my big test, my evaluation.

Host: Oh, okay.

Joe Acaba:It’s my big test day, so I’ve got to cram for that.

Host: Yeah, you should be studying right now. How you doing?

Joe Acaba:I know, you guys are killing me, but– so I’ve got a lot to do before Friday. But it’s– it is an opportunity for other astronauts in the EVA world, the spacewalk world, to look at your skills and fine tune anything they need to fix. So I’ve got that, and– but when you look at being in the pool to being in space, it’s really, really good.

Host: Wow.

Joe Acaba:In the pool it might be a little bit more physically challenging because you do have water that you’re fighting against, where in space you don’t have that.

Host: Okay, yeah.

Joe Acaba:But in space, you’re looking at earth that’s a couple hundred miles below you, and every movement that you make is critical. So when you get done with a spacewalk, you’re really mentally tired.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So I think you get out of the NBL, and you’re super tired. You’re ready to just sit on the couch and relax. And after a spacewalk, it’s kind of the same. So when you look at the two, it’s a pretty good analogy to what you’re going to feel like up in space.

Host: Wow. So what were those two spacewalks that you were doing on discovery? What were you doing?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, so on the first one, which I wasn’t– I was the guy inside reading the procedures for those putting the last set of solar panels up on the space station.

Host: Oh, I see.

Joe Acaba:So two of my crewmates went out, and so I was able to walk them through that. And then the next couple that we had were just a bunch of odds and ends on the space station. And one story I tell people about that– you know, it’s not always fun to relive it, but– you know, on my first spacewalk, you’re all pumped up. “this is cool. I’m going to go out and do a spacewalk.” And everything’s going pretty good, and then I made a mistake because I kind of got twisted around, and did something not the way it was supposed to be.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:And you know, now you’re like bummed out. You’re like, “man,” you know– all this time everybody is watching you, and then you screw this thing up. And so, you know, you come in and you’re a little bit disappointed, even though the rest of the spacewalk went well and we got done what we had to do, but now the people on the ground had to try to figure out why something didn’t work the way it was planned.

Host: Oh.

Joe Acaba:And you’re reflecting back going, “man, I made this mistake,” and so you kind of go from this– the greatest moment ever to, “man, this kind of sucks.” And– but it’s a good– you know, to me, again, you look at all the little points in your life, and it was– that’s another important point where you learn from failure. I had great crewmates, great leadership around me that allowed me to learn from that experience. And so again, talking to students that when you make a mistake, it’s not always a bad thing. It’s just how do you rebound and how do you learn from it.

Host: Yeah, definitely. I have a couple instances myself I’m thinking about off the top of my head where, you know, it’s just not going to go the way that you’re planning. Actually, that was my senior project in high school, is– “what did you learn from this experience?” I was like, “things do not go the way you planned.” I made a whole storyboard, I had a schedule for scripting and making this film, and just nothing went according to plan. Unlike you, I had friends that constantly bailed on me.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, that’s never fun. You know, and you can always play it safe and try to minimize the mistakes, but that’s how you learn, and that’s what makes it exciting.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And it’s okay to mess things up a little bit. And you can reflect on it, but don’t let it bring you down too much, because you’re going to make a lot of mistakes in life, so you might as well learn how to do it early.

Host: Absolutely. So I mean, when you were recruited as an astronaut, you said that NASA was looking for educators to go into space. So what was it that you did differently as an educator in space, versus I guess others?

Joe Acaba:You know, it’s– so we came in and we were building on the teacher in space program.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:Where they were looking for teachers to fly, you know, as educators, do a lesson plan. You know, Christa McAuliffe went, and that’s what she was going to do, and then come back and go back into teaching, where when they hired us, they were looking at educators to become full time astronauts. So for the first time since they opened it up to scientists– you know, early astronauts were all military pilots.

Host: Right, yeah.

Joe Acaba:And then they opened it up to the sciences. So now we have a wide range of scientists. And in 2004 they opened it up again to include educators, so that if you have a teaching background, it’s no different than somebody who’s got a background in chemistry or biology. And so our mission was pretty packed, like most shuttle flights are. So I don’t think that we did a whole lot on orbit working with teachers and students, you know, as educators.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But I think the biggest thing we did is that I was lucky enough on my flight that I came in with two other teachers.

Host: Oh, wow.

Joe Acaba:Ricky Arnold and Dottie Metcalf-Lindenburger. And Ricky and I, we flew together on the shuttle flight. So here you have two teachers that are in space together, which is kind of cool, and I think it’s– it was pretty important for educators. But then Ricky and I also went out and did a spacewalk together.

Host: Wow.

Joe Acaba:So now you’ve got two teachers that are outside showing that, hey, they have a skill just like anybody else does. So I think it did a lot of good for the teaching profession.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:I think that when we go out and we talk to educators, they look back at that time. And teachers aren’t always valued as much as they should be. We all know the saying, “if you can’t do, teach.”

Host: “If you can’t teach, teach gym.”

Joe Acaba:There you go. And so, you know, I think to show that teachers have a skill set just like anybody else was important.

Host: Yeah, wow, awesome. Yeah, because you’re inspiring teachers, right? Teachers are looking at you and saying, “wow, I’m a teacher. And that teacher’s doing that? That’s incredible!”

Joe Acaba:And the same with kids, you know. Kids look at teachers and they just think– well, you know, everybody knows a teacher.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So they can relate to a teacher. And you can’t always relate to astronauts, because you may never meet one. So I think even for students to go, “this is somebody– it could be– my current math teacher can be an astronaut, I can be an astronaut.”

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So I think it’s easier for kids to make that leap of you can do pretty much whatever you want to do, as long as you’re– you know, you’ve got to work hard. There is some luck involved.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But I just think it makes it a little bit more tangible for people.

Host: Sure. Especially because after you went on that mission, did you kind of travel around and go to different speaking engagements speaking with schools, and stuff like that?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, as astronauts, part of our job is to go out and– as an educator, my preference is to go out and either talk to teachers or students, where, you know, we may have the astronauts that are doctors may enjoy more going to medical conferences and things like that.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So I think for the three of us that got hired, we always enjoy going back to schools and going to national conferences where we can talk to teachers and share our experiences.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:You know, we know that we can go, and maybe we can inspire some students, but it’s the teachers every day that are making the big difference.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But if we can go in and help them do their job, then I think that’s pretty important.

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Is there any kind of teaching moments that you took on your long duration flight? Because you flew again in 2012, expedition 31-32. You were up there for quite a while– 123 days. So what kind of education element did you bring to that mission?

Joe Acaba:So we tried to do some more outreach with teachers and students.

Host: I see, okay.

Joe Acaba:And then we did some filming of different experiments up there that teachers could use.

Host: Cool.

Joe Acaba:But one of the things that– whether it was intentional or not– well, we were educators. Now our primary job is to be an astronaut.

Host: Sure.

Joe Acaba:And so the missions are pretty busy, and I think with this upcoming mission, what’s unique, again, is that I’ll be launching in hopefully September. I’ll be up there for about six months.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:And then Ricky Arnold’s going to be going up and replacing me, so we’re going to have a year with educators on orbit, which is going to– you know, it’ll be the first time, and it’s pretty unique. And NASA is– we’re currently working on, “what can we do while these guys are up there for a year to really highlight education?” And so again, you– being an astronaut, you never know what’s going to happen, and so a lot of this is building as we’re talking today.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:But NASA education is looking at a plan on what can we do to utilize these guys that have a unique skill set as educators. So I think it’s going to be a good year for NASA to reach out to educators and students and get a lot done.

Host: Absolutely. I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen.

Joe Acaba:Me, either. More to come. We’ll see what happens.

Host: Very cool. Okay, so I mean, you have that long duration mission, expedition 31-32 back in 2012. What’s different for this one that you have coming up in September?

Joe Acaba:It’s– every flight is different, especially when they’re long duration flights. Again, a shuttle flight was very well choreographed. Things might happen, but you really knew what you were going to do, where a long duration flight, you don’t know. You don’t know when the toilet’s going to break. You don’t know what may happen. And what’s neat about today is NASA is working hard to make the process to get science onboard a little bit easier. And so there are people submitting science proposals now that could potentially be up there while we’re there.

Host: Cool.

Joe Acaba:And while I’m up there, we’re going to have an additional person working on the USOS, the operating side.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:For science, so we have another body, which will allow us to do more science.

Host: Okay.

Joe Acaba:And so I think this time around, it’s going to be a lot more science intensive, just because we have an additional person. And we just have a wide variety of experiments that are going on. And it’s fun because as an astronaut, our job is to facilitate the science that people want to get done up on the space station. And so it can be just like it is here, you know– every day is different. Up there, every single day is different.

Host: Wow.

Joe Acaba:That’s– you just never get bored up there, and every mission is definitely different.

Host: Wow, awesome. So, okay, you kind of alluded to you’re going to have some education, especially with you going up followed by Ricky Arnold. We’ve got this year of space educators. You know, going back to stem, how do you see the value of stem? Especially being an educator, and someone– a stem educator. What’s the value of stem, and especially from space, too, how that applies?

Joe Acaba:Everything that we do is all stem, the science, technology, engineering and math.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:And nowadays, you’ll hear the “a” put in– they’ll call it steam.

Host: Yes, yeah.

Joe Acaba:Put the arts in, which is very applicable, because a lot of people think that math and science is very rigid and it’s kind of boring. But it’s really– it’s fairly artistic when you look at math and you look at science.

Host: Creative problem solving.

Joe Acaba:It is. It’s what you’re doing– you’re creating things. Whether you’re solving the problem or you’re discovering something new.

Host: Sure, yeah.

Joe Acaba:But everything we do here on earth is– you know, you can thank science for it. Somewhere in the stem field. You know, whether it’s the car you drive, the phone you use, the video game you play.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:All of that is stem.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:And it’s such a wide range that NASA– you know, people think of NASA and then they think of stem. But it’s every day. I mean, science, technology, engineering and math is what we do every single day. And I think that’s why we like to talk about it, is to let those kids know that it’s not that boring science class that you might have where all you did was read out of a book.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:It really is exciting, and it really is applicable to what you do every day. And if you like sports, guess what? The clothes you wear, all the new fabric that you have, that’s all science. That’s engineering.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:You know, the basketball, the baseball. I mean, everything we do is stem related.

Host: Right.

Joe Acaba:And we just don’t always realize that.

Host: It’s amazing. So kind of going back all the way to the beginning of your story where you were talking about kind of being inspired to pursue geology because of some camping trips, why did you choose something stem? Why did you go that route versus like a journalist and writing about the outdoors, or something? Why did you go science?

Joe Acaba:Well, maybe because it was easier. I’m not the best writer out there. I’m definitely not an actor type. And for me, luckily, math was relatively easy. And it’s– I don’t know. It just seemed like that was the natural fit, and I was lucky enough that I could find a field that I really enjoyed. And so again, when I talk to students when I go out, it’s like, “just find something that you enjoy doing.”

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:But don’t be afraid of something that’s hard, because then you’re going to limit what you can do.

Host: Oh, yeah.

Joe Acaba:But I think I make a better scientist than I would a journalist, though. I’m glad we have different people out there with, you know–

Host: Different skill sets.

Joe Acaba:Different skill sets, different things that they enjoy doing. So I thank all of you journalists that are out there.

Host: Yeah. Honestly, it’s– everything kind of has a purpose, and you’re right– pursue what you love. Some people just love the storytelling aspects and go for that.

Joe Acaba:Right.

Host: Others think they want to know the whys, and they want to be outside touching things, so–

Joe Acaba:If you don’t do something you love, life is going to be long.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:Because it makes a big difference when you have a job that you enjoy, and you know, I’m fortunate enough to have one like that, but–

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:So yeah, just try to find something that you really enjoy, and work hard at it.

Host: Very cool. So we’ll leave– I feel like that’d be a great place to leave our audience, but I do want to ask one more question. So us at NASA– especially from your educator perspective, what can we do at NASA to just sort of really convince people that stem is a great field to go into– or steam, sorry– steam?

Joe Acaba:Yeah, I think if NASA can share what we can do– you know, you used the word “convince.” I don’t think we need to convince everybody, because the work we do is important. I think our biggest challenge is telling people what we do here.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And NASA is– it’s a big entity. We’re doing a lot of cool things, but– you know, we have journalists. We have the divers at the NBL. We have engineers. So there’s a lot going on there that people can– you know, if they want to join NASA to help the cause that we have of exploring, helping life on earth– but our biggest challenge is sharing what we do every day. Because it is cool, going into space is great, it’s great being an astronaut, but that is such a small part of what we do.

Host: Yeah.

Joe Acaba:And the hard part is just getting out there and sharing it with folks. So I think that’s the job that we all have for anybody that works at NASA.

Host: Definitely. Very cool. Well, Joe, I think that’s all the time we have. For our listeners, I think, stay tuned until after the music and we’ll let you know how to submit an idea or maybe ask a question. But Joe, that was awesome. I just want to thank you for your time today. I know this was quite a long time, especially compared to the other thing you had to do, and it sounds like you have a pretty jam-packed week– what with learning how to operate a robotic arm and going in the neutral buoyancy laboratory. So I appreciate the time. Thank you very much.

Joe Acaba:Yeah, you’re welcome. It’s going to be a good week, and hopefully we can talk when I get back, and we’ll share the post-flight experience.

Host: Yeah, I hope so. Can’t wait to see what you’re going to do in orbit.

Joe Acaba:All right, thanks a lot.

Host: Cool.

[ music ]

[ indistinct radio chatter ]

Houston, welcome to space.

[ music ]

Host: Hey, thanks for sticking around. So today we talked with Joe Acaba, U.S. astronaut. And he is going to be going to space very soon, at the time of this recording. So if you want to follow him along on his journey, he has a twitter account– @astroacaba. And he’ll be sharing his experience onboard as an astronaut and educator in space. We’ll also be sharing his story on the international space station accounts, and an account called NASA astronauts. Just go to either one of those accounts on twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. We’re verified, so don’t even worry about it. And we’ll be sharing his experience– maybe some of the cool views that he shares, maybe some videos or moments that he shares with educators that he’ll be talking to while on orbit. Just use the hashtag #askNASA or the hashtag #hwhap — h-w-h-a-p– Houston, we have a podcast. Use any of those on your favorite platform– submit an idea for the show or maybe a question you have for Joe, and we’ll make sure to address it in one of the later podcasts. This podcast was recorded on July 10, 2017. Thanks to Alex Perryman, John Stoll, Pat Ryan and John Streeter. And thanks again to Mr. Joe Acaba for coming on the show. We’ll see you next week.