A conversation with Karen Bradford, chief of staff for the center director at NASA’s Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley.
Transcript
Matthew Buffington:You’re listening to NASA in Silicon Valley, episode 90!
This week our guest is Karen Bradford, chief of staff to the center director here at NASA Ames. Karen tells a great story about how she came to NASA and the roll she plays in pulling order out of chaos to help bring people together. Karen recently received the Deane-Greene S.T.E.M. award for her work in promoting S.T.E.M. and S.T.E.A.M. movements here in Silicon Valley. Also joining me is my colleague Tiffany Blake, but lets
Just go ahead and jump into our conversation we had with Karen Bradford.
Host: We always start the podcast in the same way. We want to know how did you get to NASA? What brought you to Silicon Valley? So, tell us a little bit about your story. Were you always interested in working at NASA or how did that happen exactly?
Karen Bradford:I wanted to be a part of NASA since I was a little girl. And I’d love to tell you I had some great, enormous plan on how to get here, but I didn’t. I’d love to tell you that. I can start with there’s this moment in my life when we were little kids in Alabama; I’m from Anniston, Alabama, and my mom and dad took us for the first time to Disneyworld. And the only reason I wanted to go, because I had no interest in rides, I had no interest in any of that really except to kind of see it, I wanted to go to Space Mountain. It was my goal. It’s what I was going to do. And we got there in August. I don’t know why my parents thought August was the perfect time to go to Orlando, but we did, and I wanted to go to Space Mountain.
So, you know how your kids will tap you and go, “Mama, Mama, Mama, Mama?” I did that for hours to my mom and dad, “I want to go to Space Mountain. I want to go.” And they finally broke down and said, “Oh my gosh. Let’s take this kid.” We had to go all the way across the park. We get there. I thought it was an exhibit. I didn’t know it was a ride.
Host: You thought you were going to Space Camp.
Karen Bradford: I thought there would be some scientists talking.
Host: You’re in for a world of fun.
Karen Bradford: Did not know what was going to happen. I just wanted to see exhibits. I wanted to see science. I wanted to know the new technological things that were going to happen in the future. And on T.V., it kind of said that. And I saw the flashing lights. And I saw the people. But it never occurred to me it was a ride.
So, we get there. And even with all the warnings of, “If you’re this high” or “if you’re pregnant” or “if you have a brain, don’t get on this ride.” I didn’t hear it, because my mind was focused on what I thought it was, right?
Host: You’re sitting in the thing. The lap belts are coming down.
Tiffany: Yeah, still, this is not a ride. Not a ride.
Host: When are the scientists coming up? This is an odd seating arrangement, but I’m going with it.
Karen Bradford: Yes. That is exactly what happened. And because my brothers and my dad were in the little car thing ahead of me, I thought it was just going to take us through the exhibits, right? And it was in the dark, and I don’t know if they still do this at Space Mountain or not, but it was kind of in the dark, and you saw flashing things, which later on I realized was the roller coaster going over.
Host: How old were you?
Karen Bradford: I was maybe 9
Host: Oh, that’s awesome. Go ahead.
Karen Bradford: Nine years old. And I’ve always been kind of a fluffy girl. My mom is this very tiny West Indian woman, right? So, she sat in front because of the weight allowance. The larger folks sat in the back because of the ride. I didn’t know that, but it makes sense now. So, I was behind her, and they started off really slow. And I was just telling my mom, “Hey, mom. I wonder what’s the first exhibit we’re going to see? I bet you it’s something from NASA because NASA of course is going to be involved with Space Mountain. I’m so excited.” And my mom kind of went, “What?” And about the time she said that, I saw my father and my brothers disappear, right?
Host: Going over? “Aaah!”
Karen Bradford: Right down, right? And that’s the last thing I remember saying because I screamed the whole way. And my poor mom ’til the day she passed still had the crescent claw marks in her collar bone from me clamping in and just like, “Oh my gosh.” — and I think the reason they show you pictures of yourself on camera is to show you that you’re still alive when you get out of that ride.
Host: You made it.
Karen Bradford: We made it. We walked out, sat on a bench, nobody said a word. And my dad finally when he could speak said, “Don’t you ever say the word “Space Mountain” again. He didn’t realize it was going to be all of that either. But it never diluted my passion for NASA; it never did.
So, one thing led to another, and life happens. My husband and I met in 5th grade. We ended up being teen parents. And he ended up going into the nuclear Navy instead of doing the scholarship he had gotten at Virginia Tech because we had these kids that we wanted to take care of. And off we went for me to be a military wife. And I just followed him everywhere for like 21 years.
Host: Oh wow.
Karen Bradford: Is how long he was in. Five kids. We now have eight grandkids. And every duty station we went to, I took classes and went to school. I had started at Jacksonville State in Jacksonville, Alabama and then got married and took off. So, you can imagine, I think for a while we moved every six months or every year as he was doing his nuclear power training, and I was learning how to be a mom. But everywhere we went, I would try to find something, a tech museum, anything. I followed NASA just fanatically to be honest, taught my kids what was going on and following all of the programs and Challenger and what have you until eventually the weirdest thing happened. I started working for the government.
Host: Yeah.
Karen Bradford: It was great. I worked for DOD and Navy and the U.S. Marine Corps and Treasure Island here in the Bay Area. We lived there for nine years. We were here through the earthquake in ’89. And then Alonzo Bradford retired.
Host: Okay.
Karen Bradford: And the bet was — I said okay, and we were in Hawaii. I said, “Here’s the deal. I’ve always wanted to go back home to Alabama. He not necessarily so. I said, “Whoever gets the first job –“
Host: Wins?
Karen Bradford: ” – that’s who wins, and marriage.” It’s a compromise. That seemed fair, right? And we’re very competitive.
Host: And motivated too.
Karen Bradford: And very motivated.
Host: So now all of a sudden, you’re motivated to get yourself out there and find a job.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. The man hadn’t even thought about it until I said that. And the next day, I woke up and he went, “Oh, there is a Career Fair at Pearl Harbor today. I’m going.” I said, “Yeah, that’s nice,” thinking, okay, he’s just getting out there. Hasn’t interviewed in 21 years. What’s going to happen? Next thing he said was, “Hey, guess what? I went, and these people wanted to talk to me.” Oh, look at him. He’s getting out there. That’s great. He’s basically a shy guy. I told my coworker. She said, “You know, you need to be prepared because when he hears his first rejection, that’s going to be hard, and you need to be ready.” “I’m totally on it.”
Next thing I know, he comes in the next day, “They want to see me.” The next day was, “They’re flying me to Santa Clara.” What? What’s happening? He had the job at Intel. We ended up . . .
Host: Really?
Karen Bradford: — the week after he retired —
Tiffany: He beat you.
Karen Bradford: He beat me. He beat me, got the job first. I had already put in my transfer orders to work at Naval Public Works in Virginia. I was going to go work at there because I was working for Public Works in Pearl Harbor in Hawaii in the office, so I thought, “That makes sense, and I’m closer to home. And Virginia is great. I’d love that.” Mm-mm. So, we come back to the Bay Area. And as we’re here, and I’m thinking, “This is a great time,” I actually went to Alabama; he came here. But he needed to help find a house here. And with starting work so quick, he couldn’t do all of that. I tell you what, I said, “It’s a great time the parents have, the kiddos. I’ll fly out, find a house, and I’ll do my resume while I’m out there.”
Host: Awesome, yeah.
Karen Bradford: He said, “Okay, that’s a great idea. So, I come out, we stay with friends. I do what I called the resume of my life because I decided everything I needed to put in it had to be what I was really about and what I wanted to do. I had no idea of what that was.
Host: Yeah.
Karen Bradford: But I wanted it to get me to where I’m supposed to be.
Host: And you didn’t just want a job. You wanted something you’re passionate about.
Karen Bradford: Exactly.
Tiffany: It was time, after five kids and moving. It’s time for me.
Host: Like, “Now it’s time for me.”
Karen Bradford: Yeah.
Tiffany: I’m going to like what I do.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. Cause I thought, well I didn’t get the job first. I should at least when I get the job have it be the job that really means something to me. So, we did all that. And it just so happens commissary is here at Moffett, right? And as a military family, he said, “Oh, you should see where the commissary is here in this area.” “Oh, that’s a great idea.” I knew Moffett was down here because it’s a Navy base.
Host: Yes, exactly.
Karen Bradford:Right? And we had been at Treasure Island, but I’d never been here, not ever. And I did not know NASA was here, which was really weird that I didn’t know that NASA Ames was even here. So, we come, and I said, “I tell you what; I’m going to bring my resume with me because Onizuka Air Station was still active when we first got here.” And I actually ended up going over there to drop it off and ended up having an interview at Onizuka while I was here for their Accounting area and Controller area, right, in IG, because that’s what I did.
So, we’re coming from that, and this is a horrible thing to say; you can edit it at any time, I had to use the bathroom really bad.
Host:It happens to the best of us.
Karen Bradford:It’s a human thing. And we looked up. The black fence wasn’t here. And I told my husband, “Oh my gosh.” We still hadn’t quite found the commissary. He said, “It’s here somewhere.” I said, “Oh look, there’s a building that says Personnel. They have to have bathrooms. I’ve got this resume. I’m just going to run in and use the bathroom and run out.” He said, “Well, what is this?” I said, “You know, there’s a sign that says NASA. Oh, that can’t be like THE NASA. Well, even if it is.” So, I convinced my husband to stop. I jump out, run in and use the bathroom.
Host:You’re like, “While I’m here, hello personnel people.”
Karen Bradford:Actually, there was someone in the stall. And I was embarrassed because she said, “Oh hi, I’ve not seen you around.” And I thought. “Uh-oh, they got me.”
Host:“They got me. I’m caught.”
Karen Bradford: What am I doing? So, I said, “Mm-hmm.” She said, “Are you applying for a job here?” And I said, “Oh yes, I am.” And she said, “Oh that’s great. What do you do?” And I’m talking and still thinking of a way to get out of this building so they don’t arrest me because I don’t know. I’m thinking, it’s NASA. There’s all kinds of security. What?
Host: You had no idea.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. So, she kind of said, “Oh, that’s great. Do you have a resume with you?” “I do.”
Tiffany: “As a matter of fact, I do have a resume with me.”
Host:“Why, yes.”
Karen Bradford: Gave it to her thinking, “Now I can just leave.” And she looked and said, “Don’t move.” And I thought, “Uh-oh.”
Host: All right, here it comes.
Karen Bradford: They’re going to call security, and then they’re going to take me away. And I don’t know how to explain this to my husband who’s in the car waiting.
Host: Waiting with the car running, listening to the radio.
Karen Bradford: Security walking me out the door. And she said, “Don’t move.” And she walked away, went to a board outside and snatched this paper off the board, stapled it, because her office was like near the bathroom, stapled the paper, said, “Sign this.” Uh-huh, sure. And I did because I’m thinking, “Oh, gosh, I’ll do anything so I can get out of this building right now.” And sure enough, she said, “Well what number can I reach you at?” I said, “I’m actually staying with friends.” “Give me their number.” I said, “Well, actually, I’m in Alabama with my parents.” “Give me their number.” “Oh, okay.” So, I did, and she said, “I’m just so happy to meet you. I’m so excited because I really think looking at your resume you’re exactly who we need.” I’m like, “Mm-hmm, that’s great. Thank you and have a nice day.”
I went and got back into the car with my husband, and he said, “I was just about to run in to find you. What happened?” I said, “I think I applied for a job.” He said, “With who?” “I don’t know.” “To do what?” “I have no idea.” And I said, “But we should move very quickly because they may soon figure out I’m not the one,” right? So, we left. I didn’t think another thing about it.
Host: No takebacks.
Karen Bradford: No takebacks. I’m out. A week later, I get this call actually from Bill Henderson who was in Personnel. He said, “Hi, we’re calling you to do a phone interview for the NASA Astro Biology Institute.”
Host: Oh really?
Karen Bradford: “Uh-huh, that’s awesome. Why?” [Laughs]
Host: You’re like, “Those all sound like great words. I don’t know what that has to do with me.”
Karen Bradford: Right. I don’t know what it means strung together. That’s an awesome idea. And I said, “Sure.” And he’s explaining, and he said, “They’re going to call you. Is that okay?” “Yeah, that’s great.” So sure enough, I thought, “I should look this up,” right? So, I’m looking it up on the computer. What is the NASA Astro Biology Institute? And I started reading it, and I kid you not, every cell in my body just resonated with what was going on.
What was interesting though, on the Web site, what I noticed was they spelled “science” wrong.
Host: Oh really?
Tiffany: Wow.
Host: It’s that silent C.
Karen Bradford: It’s that silent C.
Host: It’ll get you ever time.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. So, I thought, “Ooh, should I tell them? Well, you know what? I really want to do this authentic.”
Host: Be you, yes, exactly.
Karen Bradford: If it’s meant to me, it’s meant to be. I’m still not even sure what the job is. Why not? So, we have this interview. And I’m telling them what I saw, what resonated and the things I really love to do, especially anything that has to do with connection and anything that has to do with pulling order out of chaos is just my thing.
Host: Totally.
Karen Bradford: It’s the thing I started studying at Jacksonville State as a young wife when we first took off. And I’ve just always been fascinated at trying to find the path in the middle of all kinds of things and connecting people. So, I felt that astrobiology had that. Because I could not understand why anyone had never thought, you can’t answer any of the questions to get into deep space or off this planet if you aren’t talking together, right?
Host: Totally.
Karen Bradford: If your engineer builds something that when it lands is going to kill all the life on the planet because you haven’t planned on what that would look like, it’s not going to succeed. So, everything from science and chemistry, geochemistry, all those pieces need to talk, even for astrobiology. They had a focus group that worked on and focused on the theological questions and the philosophies around, “Well if you find life, what’s your responsibility?”
Host: Yeah.
Karen Bradford: Right? And I thought that was the best thing ever.
Host: It got you.
Karen Bradford: I want to be with this group, right? So, at the end of the interview, still thinking I would mess it up, I said, “Yeah, by the way, your Web site is great, but did you notice you spelled science wrong?”
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: And Wendy Dolci who was interviewing me; I love her to this day, she said, “I’m sorry, what?” And sure enough, you could hear her. “Wow.” And then she said, “We will have a follow-up interview.” I said, “Okay, great. I’d love to hear from you.”
Host: Yeah?
Karen Bradford:Talked with Dr. Barry Blumberg Nobel Art, who was the head of the institute at the time and Rose Grimes, his deputy, and next thing I knew, I had the job –
Host: Oh, that’s awesome.
Karen Bradford: — which was really just being a Resource Analyst and Management Analyst at the institute at the time. And it was funny because my first day on the job, I didn’t do enough research because we had a call. It was probably my first week. And our admin who was supporting us was out sick, and the phone rang, and I answered it.
Host: You were like as anybody growing up, the phone’s ringing. I’m not a monster.
Karen Bradford: Right. You answer the phone.
Host: “I have to answer the phone. I got this.”
Tiffany: “I can do this.”
Karen Bradford: I totally had this.
Host: “Hello, you’re calling NASA.”
Karen Bradford: Oh, right. “Hello? What can I do for you?” And I was so excited. Bill Henderson had told me in my sort of onboarding call for coming onboard, he said, “Look, you can’t mess this job up.” I said, “What do you mean?” And he said, “You are going to be very visible. Dr. Blumberg is a Nobel Laureate, and this is NASA. And the part of your job for making sure things run right and that you’re the front-forward face for helping him and all of the people there, if you mess this up, you can mess things up not only on a national scale, but on an international scale.”
Host: Oh wow.
Tiffany: No pressure. No pressure at all.
Karen Bradford: Right, no pressure.
Tiffany:Got this, yeah.
Karen Bradford: And my crazy self went, “Sounds like a blast. Let’s do it.” Right?
Host: Let’s jump in.
Karen Bradford:Why not? And he did. He must have given me a 15-minute speech on, “Don’t mess this job up,” right? So, I’m nervous. Of course, if the phone rang, pick up the phone. Answered the phone, and this wonderful silky-voiced person says, “Hi, this is Dan Goldin’s office calling for Dr. Blumberg.” Well, unfortunately, what I didn’t research was that Dan Golden was the Administrator of NASA.
Host: I was going to say. [Laughs]
Karen Bradford: So, I’m like, “Dan Goldin.”
Host:You’re like, “Sounds like a nice guy,” Right?
Karen Bradford: Yeah.
Host: “Let me see if I can help you out.”
Karen Bradford: Right, exactly. So, I tell him or tell her, who it’s Denise Stewart, who was his executive admin at the time, I said, “Well, Dr. Blumberg is very busy right now. May I take a message?” And she said, “Okay. Dan Goldin’s office.”
Host: She said, “I don’t think you heard me right.”
Karen Bradford: Right. And I said, “And Dr. Blumberg is very busy. Look, if you can just let me write that down, I’ll get a message to him. Thank you so much. I got it. Dan Goldin’s office called. Great.”
Host: Oh, that is too funny.
Karen Bradford: Hung up the phone, right? Because I had heard Dr. Blumberg was the end-all, Nobel Laureate. He invented the hepatitis B vaccine. He’s the guy, cool.
Host: He’s a Nobel Laureate if you didn’t know.
Karen Bradford: So, I’m thinking, all right; I went back to my office. Well, within like 10 minutes, the phone rings again. Huh, I should probably answer that. So, I did pick up the phone. “Hello?” “Hello. This is Dan Goldin.” “Hello.”
Host: “Oh, I just took your message. How are you doing?”
Karen Bradford: “Hi, what’s up?” He goes, “I’m calling for Barry Blumberg.” “Yes, Dr. Blumberg is on a very important call right now. May I take a message?” And there was this pause. And he said, “This is Dan Goldin.” I said, “This is Karen Bradford.”
Tiffany: “Nice to meet you.”
Karen Bradford: “Can I take your name and number?” And he said, “Dan Goldin.” “Mm-hmm. Is that I-N or E-N?” He went, “I-N.” “Okay, great. Do you have a number?” He said, “I’m sure he knows it.” “Okey-dokey, thank you so much. Bye.” Click.
Host: With loads of Alabama southern charm as well.
Karen Bradford: And we went straight into, “Bless your heart,” right? We were like one second away from, “Bless your heart.”
Host: [Laughs]
Karen Bradford:And I thought, okay. So sure enough, Rose Grimes, comes walking by. She’s like, “So, Karen, how’s it going? What are you doing answering the phone?”
Karen Bradford: You’re kind of touchy.
Host: Kind of pushy.
Karen Bradford: Kind of pushy when he called. And she honestly almost fell down. She said, “I’m sorry, who called?” I said, “Dan Goldin.” And she just couldn’t even speak for a moment.
Host: “Got to run.”
Karen Bradford:So, Barry Blumberg had come out of his office. He said, “What’s going on?” She said, “Barry, Karen just answered the phone, and it was Dan Goldin. And she told him you were busy.”
Host: [Laughs]
Karen Bradford: And this is why I love Dr. Blumberg to the day he passed. He looked and went, “Well, I’m a very busy man.”
Host: That was awesome. He’s demonstrating higher value.
Karen Bradford: I know. “I’m a very busy man.” So, he goes, “Let’s call him back.” And I’m looking thinking, “Yep, something has gone horribly wrong, and I think I’m going to have the shortest career at NASA ever.”
Host: That’s too funny.
Karen Bradford: And all I could think of was trying to face Bill Henderson and say, “You were right, and within a week, I messed this up.” So, Rose said, “Call him back at NASA headquarters.” And I’m like, “I’m so sorry. Tell me again who’s Dan Goldin?” And she goes, “It’s the Administrator of NASA.” And I’m like, “All of NASA?”
Host: [Laughs] That’s the best question.
Karen Bradford: The whole shebang?
Host: Like, “All of it.”
Karen Bradford: “All of it?” And she goes, “Yep, and you need to call back.” So, I called back. And Denise Stewart answered the phone, and she was barely controlling her laughter.
Host: I’m sure.
Karen Bradford: She also has left us and has passed. But she was the most professional person ever. And she said, “Hello?” I said, “I am so sorry. This is Karen Bradford from the NASA Astrobiology Institute calling for Dr. Blumberg for Mr. Goldin.” But in the background, you could hear the bluest language. “God! Blah-blah-blah-blah.” He was screaming and just kind of like, “Who was that?” And I thought, “I’ll just pack my bags and go because this is it.”
Tiffany: It was nice. It was a nice week. Thanks so much for having me.”
Karen Bradford: “It’s been fun.”
Host: This was week one, right?
Karen Bradford: Week one.
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: Week one. I thought, “Oh man.” And she said, “You know what, honey? It’ll all be okay. Because if you get past this day, everything else will be smooth sailing.” And I’m like, “Well, if I get past.” I said, “Can I just apologize to him?” She said, “Oh, I wouldn’t right now.”
Host: You gotta own it. You’re like, “I did what I did.”
Karen Bradford: Whatever. So sure enough, I got Dr. Blumberg, and I told him, “Dr. Blumberg, Mr. Goldin’s on the phone, and I’m really, really sorry.” And he said, “Oh, don’t worry. Together we’re going to make way more mistakes than this, and that’s what we want, right?” And as I’m leaving his office, Barry Blumberg leans in his chair, “Dan, as you heard, I’m a very busy man.”
Host: [Laughs] He’s just hamming it up at that point. He enjoyed every minute.
Karen Bradford: He did. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I’m going to die.” But you know what? I didn’t get fired so I considered it really good.
Host: Oh, that is awesome. You talk about the connections and connecting people. It very much goes into the job that you’re in now as Chief of Staff. And I want to get into the, what is a Chief of Staff; what all goes into that? But I would be remiss to put Tiffany on the spot a little bit. Even when I first came to NASA, Tiffany, you were the first person that I met.
Tiffany: Yes.
Host: That’s right.
Tiffany: I was.
Host: But I heard you guys have a connection as well. So, tell me a little bit about that. How did you all meet, and how did you end up pulling this stuff together?
Tiffany: Well, I think Karen met me as a very stressed-out college student.
Host: You’re like, “I’m looking for a job.
Tiffany: It’s like, you know, when you see the student and you kind of pull them to the side like, “Are you okay? Can I do anything?” “Oh no. Just trying to graduate and find my life,” you know? Yeah. So, she met me as a college student as a member of the National Coalition of 100 Black Women. And I kind of became her mentee after she saved me that one night after a meeting when I was just totally stressed out with finals.
Host: Oh, I bet.
Tiffany: Yeah. So ever since then, she’s kind of just been like my mentor.
Karen Bradford: And proud of it, she’s an amazing, amazing person. And one of the things is we’re the Silicon Valley Chapter of the NCBW. And I think the work that’s there — and to her credit, Tiffany jumped in to be the Educational Chair within, what, two years?
Tiffany: Yeah, I don’t know how.
Host: It was all a blur.
Karen Bradford: Youngest Chair ever.
Tiffany: I was really ambitious at the time.
Karen Bradford: And still is because the work that the chapter does, which I heart and soul am a fan of, she helps us with what’s called our PSMRT program, Pathfinder Science in Math and Technology. And it’s a STEM program that the reason it resonated so much for me, especially coming from a small town and just really wanting people to get opportunities, it’s all about having access to and knowing about an opportunity.
Host: Because we all can’t just stumble into a personnel office and find a bathroom and totally a hiring official.
Tiffany: Exactly.
Karen Bradford: It doesn’t happen.
Tiffany: Just needs a resume.
Karen Bradford: It just doesn’t happen. And so, my whole thing, and I knew that I had found a kindred spirit both with the chapter and with Tiffany because they’re all about that. So, for girls, it’s really weird that in the Silicon Valley that there’s just not a lot of STEM-focused opportunities that are necessarily known about by minorities, kids of color, girls especially. And one of the things that Tiffany helped us to realize is that we lose girls 4th through 8th grade. They drop like flies. I think at first, we had 5th through 8th, and then we dropped it down to 4th grade, trying to catch them and put them in a situation, again, where they saw in a room with parents as well, “Oh my gosh, there’s someone who’s really interested in STEM education, and I’m not odd, and there’s nothing wrong with me wanting to be someone in this area.”
And one of the things Tiffany has helped us to do is take it from being STEM to STEAM. Again, how do you tell the story, right?
Host: Nice. Yeah.
Karen Bradford: If there’s no one out there to tell what you do, it didn’t happen, you know? You may think it happened.
Tiffany: And if you’re not telling the story, how are the girls in these areas actually hearing about these opportunities? Because they don’t hear about the stories told about what do you do across these multiple focuses in STEM? So yeah, I think it’s very important that we tell the stories, which is so crazy that I actually helped tell the stories now here at NASA. It kind of comes full circle. But yeah, really trying to tap into that and getting the girls access to people in these fields so they can actually see it. I think it’s one thing to just tell a kid, “Oh my god, you could be an astronaut,” versus actually bringing someone who has actually helped find water on Mars right in front of them.
Host: You can throw data at people left and right.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Host: But it’s understanding the story —
Tiffany: The visual, the story.
Host: — where it all fits in and also how it’s relevant.
Karen Bradford: Exactly.
Tiffany: It’s like the best how-to you could ever have, right?
Host: And you remember stories. There’s something that you read or a podcast you listen to, you remember the stories. You’re not going to remember what the O2 levels were.
Karen Bradford: No, right?
Host: It’s going to come in and out.
Karen Bradford: That’s exactly it. What they’re going to remember is the story is going to be a tangible piece. It’s going to be being able to see themselves in the story, right?
Host: Totally.
Karen Bradford: That is not something that is around you, but it’s about you, and then you’re really a player in doing that. So, I think the work that we do for these young ladies, and it’s not just sending them to camp — Tiffany puts on with the rest of the chapter a technological sort of day where every girl who applies get to do that day. Let’s be honest, there’s only so much funding to do, so many things for so many kids. We take that to the max. But we have 150 applications generally that we get each year. We might have 50 slots every year.
Host: Oh wow.
Karen Bradford: But all 150 girls get to do Tech Day in combination with this is that chaos, connecting people. Whatever organization here in the Silicon Valley, whether it’s Intel or Genentech or Rocket Fuel, all of these other organizations, Informatica, that host for the day, and they step full in. They’re there. They have their people there to give talks to the girls. We have hands-on activities for them. We do a lot of storytelling because we really make it a STEAM day so they remember.
I think last year, we took them up to Camp MayMac. And what we did with the girls was send them on a space mission. And everybody had a role as one of the officers on deck, right?
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: So, there was a public affairs officer. There was a science officer. Who’s going to do the food? Who’s going to make sure that people understand who’s disciplined, right? Because if you’re gone on a long duration, you have to think about discipline. What happens? What is the law?
Host: Oh yeah.
Karen Bradford: What does that look like? And if you break it, what happens?
Tiffany: Yeah, right. Oh my god. They’re fascinating, their imaginations. I think that’s the great thing about kids is when you become an adult, your imagination kind of just wavers.
Host: Yeah, real life happens. You’re looking for health insurance and car insurance.
Tiffany:Yes, you’re adulting now. You have to pay bills. But kids at that age, for Camp MayMac, generally they’re 4th or 5th grade, oh my god, the imaginations, the things that they thought of in order to get us into space and to –
Karen Bradford: Off the chain.
Tiffany: — other planet was just like, “Wow, you guys get it,” you know?
Host: So, for folks who are listening, you’ll get used to Tiffany’s voice just like Abby and Kimberly and other folks who have been on the podcast. You’re going to be hearing more from Tiffany who’s on our Storytelling Communications Team.
Tiffany: Yes.
Host: — as we keep talking, trying to get people. It’s not only just the researcher, scientist, engineers, but this is also overall cool people.
Karen Bradford: Absolutely.
Host: Because it’s not just like the technical side; there’s a whole mission support.
Karen Bradford: Oh, absolutely.
Host: Things that you don’t necessarily think of, which goes into the STEAM part, but it’s also just helping the people to make their jobs easier so that they’re not worrying about it. They can focus on science and engineering and not have to worry about their procurement or the legal aspects.
Karen Bradford: Right.
Host:Or getting things posted on a Web site. It also goes to the Chief of Staff. I want you to talk about that because people hear that word; it sound fancy. And there’s a whole Chief of Staff community at all of the NASA centers. So, for folks that have no clue what that is, talk a little bit about that. What exactly is that? What does that job entail?
Karen Bradford: I would love to tell you something that’s so formal. But honestly, I think the biggest skillset I bring to work every day is being a mom. There’s a lot of listening with being the Chief of Staff. No day, and every one of the chiefs will tell you, is the same. So primarily you’re the Chief of Staff to the Center Director as well as the Chief of Staff for the center. Things that come up, problems, issues, things that are just sort of out of the ordinary, I connect them to people in answers. I bring people in a room to have conversations. I make sure that the Center Director is aware of things that are key and critical as well as some of the things that are more of the soft-skill side.
If an organization is finding that we’re doing really great work, but for whatever reason we’d love to hear from you because it will motivate us. We need to kind of know what’s going on. So, a lot of the skills from chiefs have to do with that chaos theory management.
Host: Yeah.
Karen Bradford: So, it’s really been very helpful for me, both as a military wife and as a mom and being this African-American/West Indian person from the south and doing all the cultural things that you need to do, every single one of those skills has helped me, especially here at Ames. I’m very proud of that. And every one of the chiefs across the agency has a background that’s different. And I think what happens is you kind of get to the one where your background helps you most for your center. Because regardless of NASA, all of the centers have personalities as a whole, right?
Host: Yeah, histories, yeah.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. And sort of what your base is, what the ecosystem is for your community at your center. And your chief generally not only comes out of the ecosystem, but there are some skills that they have, whether they’re an engineer, whether they’re a bioscientist or chemist or for me, mostly management analysis and what’s going on and being able to just sort of oodleoop, right? I’m constantly oodleooping all day because I have not run into too many things here at NASA Ames Research Center where the answer is a rock, concrete thing. I really haven’t, right?
As long as you have the human factor, that will always be the case.
Host: Things are going to get interesting.
Karen Bradford: It’s going to be interesting. And as long as you have a really talented group of people, not just in STEM, but absolutely on the mission support side of the house who are doing this innovative, not cutting edge, but bleeding edge things, that’s everything from doing podcasts like this to the things that we’re doing in sustainability base with our new recycling. The water recycling has finally come up. I heard that this morning. I’m excited about that. The amazing things we’re doing in life detection and astrobiology, the rocket, and I mean, rocket work we’re doing in cyber and things that we’re doing in high-end computing, UTM work, all of these things, you can’t be bored.
And as a chief, I don’t think there are enough hours in the day for me to be able to — if I could, I’d go to every org and just sit and listen. There’s nothing that doesn’t fascinate me about the work we do.
Host: Well that’s a cool thing, an advantage that Ames has, even as a research center, is being involved in a lot of things.
Karen Bradford: Oh yeah.
Host: But then also, it’s like –
Karen Bradford: Keeps it interesting.
Host: — it keeps it interesting, and it gives us endless content for the podcast.
Karen Bradford: Oh my gosh, yes.
Host: But I think also the real energy of it is where those different fields of study overlap and interlink where if you only focused on one, you would never notice how they would overlap and interconnect —
Karen Bradford: Right.
Host: — when it goes into it. It’s so easy to be a researcher or be a professional in a certain realm and be focusing on your work, and you can miss those opportunities of where these interlinks can happen.
Karen Bradford: Right.
Host: So, having people with the top-down view of not really looking at the trees, looking at the whole forest and be like, “Oh hey, they have the same problem as you’re having.”
Karen Bradford: Right.
Host: “Have you ever talked to these people over here,” and making those human connections; it can’t be underestimated.
Karen Bradford: No, and that’s exactly what I do. I shouldn’t say this, but I’m going to say it now. My secret will be out. But I actually will just throw random people in a room together.
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: They think they’re coming to meet with me. But I’ll throw them in because I know there’s something someone said in one meeting, someone said in another. And together, they’re going to make this amazing thing, right? And oftentimes, they’ll walk out, and it will end up being some sort of connection or collaboration. And I think that’s the work I’m most proud of as a chief is understanding what’s happening enough, because I am not the expert, and it’s okay. But I can get the experts together to have that conversation. We’re working right now with the United Negro College Fund and Google and Howard University and CMU for them to do something that I really hope ends up being the beginning of Starfleet Academy. You know that’s my goal, right, is to create Starfleet Academy.
Host: Exactly. Be the future you want to see.
Karen Bradford: Exactly. Right? So, they have just gotten the approval, UNCF, to kind of recreate this historically black college and university virtual institute here on the West Coast.
Host: Awesome.
Karen Bradford: I’m really excited about it. And it’s not just HPCUs. It’s HSIs and travel colleges and other minority universities and institutions. So, it’s just getting off the ground. But what that’s going to take is a whole lot of chaos, cord-pulling. It’s a whole lot of throwing people in a room just to be aware of each other and having the conversation. For me, that’s the yummy part of this job. We have the commitment from our senior management here to help in any way we can, whether it’s to help with curriculum and all this kind of stuff. But my fun part is just trying to see what blooms, right?
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: What is it that’s going to happen? Because somebody’s got to start Starfleet Academy. We’re in the Bay Area. We all know that’s where it’s going to be. Now we just need to make that future a reality by getting the right people in the room. And I think that with diversity, it’s so important to not be an afterthought, but to be part of the very plan, right? It’s not supposed to be something that you add on. It’s supposed to be part of the plan from the very beginning and the very foundation of what you’re building. And we don’t have a lot of opportunities to do that, and this is a great opportunity.
Host: So now comes the portion of the podcast where I get to completely embarrass you.
Karen Bradford: Oh gosh.
Host: And if you’re not fully forthcoming, I have Tiffany over here helping me out. Talk a little bit about what the Black Legends Organization is. Talk about the fancy award that Karen Bradford received. Talk about what is Black Legends Organization. And anything that you don’t say or forget then Tiffany’s going to pull it up.
Karen Bradford: Thanks, Tiff. That’s awesome.
Tiffany: Ha-ha.
Karen Bradford: Ha-ha. [Laughs] So I was really shocked because this is an award that’s been here in the Silicon Valley; I think this is year three or four that they’re doing it, right?
Tiffany: Yeah, three or four.
Karen Bradford: I heard about it. And really it recognizes African-Americans in the community here in Silicon Valley who have done things to sort of further promote and support what goes on and the work that’s done in the valley and in different areas. So, there’s a legal area, there’s a theater area and there’s a STEM area, which is the Dean Green Award. And I was nominated for, and to my shock, won the Dean Green Award for the work that I’ve done over the years in the valley, both at the Astrobiology Institute for creating and helping to create the Minority Institution Research Sabbatical that we started and has been going on in Astrobiology. I think this is almost our 11th year of doing that. And then working with NCBW with the STEM program to get the girls and the PeaceSmart program and doing other outreach activities. So, it was a huge honor. It was a shock. And I’m not going to tell you I’m really embarrassed because . . .
Host: No, you earned it. It was awesome.
Karen Bradford: Well, you sit next to people like Judge Risa Pinchon, and it’s the most absurd thing when going to the ceremony because it’s really fancy. You’re all dressed up. And I’d gotten my hair all pulled and tugged and the whole gala thing. My husband was in a tux.
Host: Nice.
Karen Bradford: The whole thing. And I had the really weird thing when I met Judge Pinchon to curtsey because I am in awe of the work that she does. And to my shock, she looked at me and she said, “I am so proud of you because of the types of things that you’ve been doing, the work that you’ve been doing, the above and beyond that you do is going to keep people out of my courtroom, but more importantly, it’s really going to help us in going forward.”
And I thought, “I didn’t even know she knew my name,” right?
Host:Oh wow.
Karen Bradford: Let alone any of that. But it really was a great honor. And the African-American Service Agency here in the valley along with the NAACP, there are several organizations that get together to vote on whether or not you get the award. And Ash Caldwell was there, and there was some sort of assembly recognition from California Legislature for the award. So, it was fun. It was a good evening, highlight evening.
Host: Did she cover it all, Tiffany?
Tiffany: Yeah, I think so. I think you did well. I think she likes to be shy about our accomplishments or her contributions. It’s funny. [Laughs]
Host: In full disclosure, I’ve been trying to pull Karen in on this podcast for a while.
Tiffany: For a long time.
Karen Bradford: I still don’t know how you managed to pull this off.
Tiffany: She’s been hiding.
Host: You have to talk about this stuff that you’re doing, otherwise, people don’t know about it.
Tiffany: Right. The first year I actually started to chair education, I had to actually pull her arm to co-chair with me, because I was like, “I don’t know what I’m doing,” and she was like, “Okay, okay, okay.” So, she chaired with me the first year. We did just awesome, right? And then she sends me this lovely email at the end of the year, “Hi, just want to let you know I thought you did great this year, but I am not going to co-chair with you next year. You’ve got it. Love you, bye.”
Karen Bradford: Good job.
Host: “Thank you for your service.”
Tiffany: And ever since then it’s been like, “You’re on your own. You got it.” And I’m just like, “Okay, thank you so much.”
Karen Bradford: But it’s good. But that’s the purpose, right? We want that next generation to do it.
Tiffany: Totally. Yeah. I’ve been pulled so many times and just like, “Oh, okay.” And then before I know it, I’m just out there flying on my own.
Karen Bradford: Yes.
Host: That’s too funny. Well, I’ve been thinking about like for myself because I have my own Karen Bradford story. Well, also when I joined NASA, which was just two years ago; I was previously at the State Department and joined in, and coming in for the first time, very intimated. I’ve always been into nerd culture and super big NASA fan, but . . .
Karen Bradford: You didn’t know it though. You didn’t show it at all.
Host: But it was funny because I’m sitting there in this room, and it’s like not a round table; it’s like this office table. And I’m sitting at one end like I’m ready to carve the Thanksgiving turkey. And they have this whole slew of experts who are just staring at you doing the interviews. And I remember Michael McKay, he’s one of our science directors, he runs the Science Directory here. I remember his question was, “It may be possible in the near future we can find microbial life. What is your PR plan? How do you do it?” And I remember having all these questions coming at me and being nervous. And Karen, I will never forget this, that you were like off to my left, and immediately, I don’t know if it was just the warm, southern charm, but you became the safe place.
Karen Bradford: Oh.
Host: Because typically, your eyes just gravitate to somebody.
Karen Bradford: The calm in the storm.
Host: Where it was like when in doubt, if I couldn’t think of anything, I’d turn and I’d look over at Karen. We’d never met. We’d never spoken.
Karen Bradford: Right, right.
Host: But it was just like the presence or energy where you’re like, “I’m safe talking to this person, and she’s listening to me and thinks everything I’m saying is wonderful.” And then I’ll address the broader room. But I think that kind of goes throughout your life. There are some people who have a natural energy and just kind of attract people of like, “Here’s a comfortable, safe place.”
Karen Bradford: Thank you.
Host: And help connect it on through.
Karen Bradford: Well, it was easy with you because, honestly, your phone interviews were crazy good. And you had me laughing. I couldn’t laugh out loud on the phone. But I thought, he’s going to fit well here, right? I just do. And I think that being warm and “southern,” I always tell people I’m a southerner. I honestly don’t understand half of what you’re saying in the board room, and it takes me a moment because I have to translate it into sort of like, “What does peanut butter spread actually mean,” things like that. So, it’s interesting, because in the role of chief sometimes, I can’t be warm and fuzzy as I’d like to be. But it’s never something that’s not without sort of the ultimate goal of making sure that person is their best, right?
Host: Totally.
Karen Bradford: You’re trying to get them there to be their best. But I’m very proud actually of being from Alabama and having the background that I did with my parents who were both educators and just really hoping to make them proud. That’s just what I want to do. They’ve both since gone. But I’d like to think that in looking back or looking down or whatever it is that they’re doing that they’re very proud of the work that I’ve done or that I’m still trying to do the work that they did to get people to be their best and to do their best and have that opportunity.
Host: Well for folks who are listening, if you have any questions/comments for Karen or for the podcast, we are on all the social media accounts at NASA Ames. We also have been using the hashtag NASA Silicon Valley. So, don’t be shy, and send things away, and we’ll get back to Karen and loop on back. But thank you so much for coming.
Karen Bradford: You’re welcome.
Host: I think we might have hit the record on the longest podcast thus far.
Karen Bradford: Oh no. That was not the goal.
Host: This is what happens when you have three people with the gift of gab. We just keep going and keep going. But thanks so much for coming.
Karen Bradford: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Host:You have been listening to the NASA in Silicon Valley podcast. Remember we are a NASA podcast, but we are not the only NASA podcast so don’t forget to check out our friends at “Houston We Have a Podcast”. There’s also “Gravity Assist”, there’s “This Week at NASA” and if you’re a music fan, don’t forget to check out “Third Rock Radio”. The best way to capture all of the content is to subscribe to our omni-bus RSS feed called “NASAcasts” or visit the NASA app on iOS, Android, or anywhere you find your apps.
[END]