Apollo 17 Lunar Surface Journal Banner


Traverse to Station 5 EVA-2 Close-out


Geology Station 5 at Camelot Crater

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1995 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Audio clips by Dave Shaffer.
Last revised 4 August 2017.


MP3 Audio Clip starting at 146:24:49 ( 5 min 45 sec )

146:25:25 Schmitt: Not very level for the gravimeter. What's their (tilt) limit?

146:25:31 Cernan: I don't know, but it's taken a couple better than this. (Pause) Now, I've got to change film. (Pause) Let me get things going here.

146:25:43 Schmitt: I think I can get by this station without it.

[That is, Jack thinks he can complete the station without having to change film magazines.]
146:25:46 Cernan: How's our time, Bob?

146:25:48 Parker: Stand by. We're talking about that now. Stand by. You've got 25 minutes at this station, guys. We've given you somewhat of an extension here. You're using up some of it back at the LM, but we've given you somewhat of an extension. You've got 25 minutes at this station. The primary priority will be subfloor documented samples, and then subfloor rake soil. (Pause) As you can imagine.

146:26:26 Schmitt: Okay.

[Schmitt - "Basically there wasn't going to be anything but the subfloor to sample here. Camelot is about a 600-meter-diameter crater, so it should have penetrated maybe 150 meters into the subfloor."]

[The tasks planned for Station 5 are listed on LMP/CDR-27.]

146:26:28 Parker: As you get off, we'd also like to open the SEP and again get that to cool.
[TV on. Jack is at the gate.]
Video Clip ( 3 min 50 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 38 Mb MPEG )

RealVideo Clip by Mick Hyde (15 min 36 sec)

146:26:36 Schmitt: Okay. You wanted to turn it Off?

146:26:39 Parker: That's affirm...

146:26:40 Cernan: Turn it off.

146:26:41 Parker: ...turn it Off, open, dust...

146:26:42 Schmitt: You want it off?

146:26:43 Parker: ...the same thing we've been doing to it all aft(ernoon)...(correcting himself) all evening.

146:26:48 Schmitt: Well, it's midday here, Bob. (Pause)

146:26:56 Cernan: Leave it open and I'll dust it, Jack.

146:26:58 Schmitt: Okay. Oh, the (SEP) temperature; they'd like to know.

[Jack goes to the SEP receiver behind his seat.]
146:27:06 Schmitt: Temperature is still about 112.
[Gene goes to the gate. Fendell starts panning counter-clockwise.]
146:27:08 Parker: Copy that.

146:27:09 Cernan: You know, the thing I dread most? About close-out?

146:27:15 Schmitt: What's that?

146:27:16 Cernan: Is dusting you.

146:27:17 Schmitt: Yeah, I'm not going to be able to do much (about it) today, I don't think.

146:27:20 Cernan: Well, you know, we don't have nearly as much dust. Yesterday we were wallowing around in it. Today, we're...

146:27:25 Schmitt: Who? Me! (Guffaws)

146:27:27 Parker: Okay, and, Gene, if you're not off the Rover, how about the rest of the Rover readouts?

[Gene comes into view, going to Jack's seat.]
146:27:33 Cernan: Okay, Bob, I'm off, but I'll get them for you. I'm sorry. I look at them, and they all look good to me. And, you know, I keep forgetting to give them to you.

146:27:44 Schmitt: Bob, I have 135 frames. I think I can finish the station, don't you?

146:27:51 Parker: Yes, probably. (Long Pause)

146:28:08 Cernan: You know that SEP isn't getting much...Well, it's getting a little (dust) on it, but those mirrors don't clean off as nice as the LCRU mirrors. (Pause)

[Fendell pans counter-clockwise past Jack, who is among the boulders west of the Rover.]
146:28:31 Schmitt: Okay, Bob. This looks just like our old friend, the pyroxene gabbro, with the shiny ilmenite platelets in the vugs and partially recrystallized vesicles. The textural variations are planar, and they're primarily - or, subplanar - in the concentrations of vesicles. (Pause)
[Fendell pans clockwise to Jack; Gene crosses the field-of-view, carrying the brush to do the left battery covers. Fendell finds Jack making his way through a field of boulders up to 6 feet in size.]
146:29:12 Cernan: Jack, I'm going to put this brush under my seat. It's just getting too hard to get off that place up there (on the LCRU bracket).

146:29:17 Schmitt: Okay.

146:29:21 Cernan: Bob, what magazine?

146:29:24 Parker: Magazine Delta, (Apollo magazine 145).

146:29:27 Schmitt: Watch yourself through here, Geno.

[There are a great many rocks underfoot.]
146:29:30 Cernan: Yeah. (To Bob) Delta, huh?

146:29:33 Parker: That's affirm.

146:29:34 Cernan: Okay, Delta. (Searching through the film supply under his seat) Bravo. There's Delta.

146:29:43 Schmitt: Boy, this is certainly a uni(form) subfloor, (just) as we mapped it (pre-mission). It's certainly a uniform rock type. I'll tell you.

[Jack goes to the big boulder.]
146:29:56 Schmitt: The only variations are those gray zones which just seem to be either finer or (have an) absence of vesicles. Boy, I'm nose to nose with a piece of it right now. (Pause)

Video Clip ( 3 min 21 sec 0.9 Mb RealVideo or 33 Mb MPEG )

Movie Clip by Peter Dayton (1 min 16 sec; 0.9 Mb)

146:30:19 Cernan: Say, Bob, where can I get a new set of bags?

[Journal Contributor Bill Clancey notes with interest that Gene chose to ask Parker where to find unused bags, rather than interrupt Jack's work. Below, I have interwoven the conversation between the Flight Director and the EVA Controller with the ones between Bob and Gene and between Gene and Jack. Note that Jack, Bob, and the EVA Controller all know that there are bags under Jack's seat. Note, also, that the only voice that Gene and Jack hear from Houston is Bob's.]

[Flight Director: EVA, Flight.]

146:30:23 Parker: (To Gene) Okay, you want new bags...They'll be under Jack's seat.
[EVA: Go, Flight.]
146:30:26 Schmitt: (Having heard Gene, which he doesn't always do when Gene is talking to Parker) Under my seat, there's some, Geno.
[Flight Director: (To EVA) He's looking for some kind of bags. (Having heard Bob and/or Jack and now asking for confirmation) Are they under the LMP's seat?]

[Jack turns to look toward the Rover.]

146:30:30 Cernan: (To Jack) Okay. Just loose?
[EVA: (To Flight) They should be under the LMP's seat. Yes, sir.]
146:30:31 Schmitt: (To Gene) Yeah. (Pause)
[EVA: (To Flight) (It will) be a used set from yesterday.]
146:30:38 Schmitt: Here I am, folks, in the middle of a boulder field. Just minding my own business. (Pause)
[Jack examines several boulders around him, but without getting down to look at them closely.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 16 min 23 sec )

146:30:50 Schmitt: I don't know whether I mentioned it. The mineral texture appears to be subophitic to...(sort of) like a good diabase, although a little coarser. (Pause) But it's unquestionably organized (pause) with that variation in vesicle concentration.

[Jack moves a few feet south among the boulders.]

[Schmitt - "'Ophitic' - and 'subophitic' would be less strongly representative - is when the feldspar crystals are approximately the same size as the pyroxene and are only partially included in them. It looks like a mat with feldspar and pyroxene intergrown. 'Diabase' is the type of basalt that has that texture. And what I meant in the last sentence is that the rock structure is organized, that it's not a random, uniform face in that the vesicles are in planar concentrations. There were some zones with more vesicles and some zones with fewer vesicles and they were organized in planar structures. Lava flows often show that."]

["One characteristic of impact craters is that, when they form in layered rocks, they overturn the sequence and maintain it. You see that at Meteor Crater (Arizona) and other places where you can actually see the rim deposits. Nuclear explosion craters do the same thing. It's all ballistic and the layers just end up being overturned; so, as you walk away from the rim, you're walking upsection. That is, (as you walk away from the rim) you're going through the layers as if you were down in the bottom of the crater going up. And if there was going to be any variation, you would want to walk radial to the crater; not along the rim. Everywhere on the rim you'd find the same material from roughly the same layer."]

146:31:34 Cernan: Starting on frame 4, Bob.

146:31:36 Parker: Copy that, Gene.

146:31:44 Cernan: Jack, I've got to get new bags. I've only got one left, and you don't have any, I don't believe.

146:31:47 Schmitt: I don't have any. (Pause) Bob, I have the impression that these blocks are buried up here (and) that the mantle does exist, even on Camelot. There are a few blocks that are lying out on the...(It) looks like they're lying more or less on the surface, but you can attribute those to craters that have disrupted the block field.

146:32:24 Parker: Okay; good observation, Jack.

[Fendell pans clockwise to look at boulders on the rim and down into the crater.]
146:32:25 Schmitt: The big ones seem to be projecting out of the...(Hears Bob) The big ones seem to be projecting out of the mantle.

146:32:34 Parker: Okay. Do you see any such mantle on...

146:32:36 Schmitt: Although I can't see how the mantle in here could...

146:32:40 Parker: ...on top of them.

146:32:44 Schmitt: It's not as...(Responding to Bob) No, I don't. What's there seems to be what could have been knocked up there (by local impacts).

146:32:50 Parker: Okay. Understand.

146:32:52 Schmitt: I see a place where I think we can skim some off the top of a rock, which I think we probably ought to do.

146:33:00 Parker: Okay.

146:33:01 Schmitt: But I don't have the impression of draping, so much as I have just of burial. And I have a feeling that the zap-pitting process just has cleaned these boulders off of anything that may have been on top of them, in excess of what's around them, right now.

146:33:22 Parker: Okay, you're talking about...

146:33:23 Schmitt: Also, like Horatio, the...(Hears Bob) Go ahead.

Video Clip ( 2 min 58 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 29 Mb MPEG )

146:33:29 Parker: You're talking about mantle...(correcting himself) (a sequence of) blocks, then mantle, and then cleaned off by zap pits, in other words.

146:33:38 Schmitt: That's right. Most of the rocks seem...That seems to be what has happened all over the Moon that we've looked at (during Apollo). But the rocks are always cleaner than the surface, of course. The far rim of Camelot...You can see...(In) fact, everywhere but where we are and on the rim near(est) the LM, the rim seems to be completely covered (with mantle) or, at least, the blocks don't show through.

[Fendell returns to Jack, who hasn't moved since Fendell left him.]
146:34:13 Schmitt: They (the boulders) show up in the wall but not at the rim. That's much like Horatio, but not to the extreme that we saw at Horatio. I'd say, at Camelot, the mantle is - oh, maybe, at the most...The rim thickness, if that's mantle, is on the order of a half of what we saw at Horatio.
[Schmitt - "What I was trying to say was that, at Camelot, the rim thickness of mantle (the apparent depth of regolith burying boulders) was about half of what we saw at Horatio. That's the problem with talking and observing simultaneously."]
146:34:34 Parker: Okay. Copy that.

146:34:35 Schmitt: The pan should let you measure that...Well, we didn't get a pan at Horatio, but we got some Rover shots of it. But you may be able to quantify that a little bit.

146:34:46 Parker: Okay.

[Jack will take a pan from east of the Rover at about 146:49.]
146:34:52 Schmitt: (Turning toward the Rover) How you coming, Geno?

146:34:53 Cernan: Oh, I've got new bags. I've got new mags. I've got everything cleaned up and Mark, gravimeter.

146:35:00 Parker: Copy. Mark that.

146:35:04 Schmitt: Here's a nicely structured rock that we probably ought to work on here. Structured, again, in the vesicle concentration. And then I think we ought to try to get...Right over there, we can get mantle.

[Gene enters the picture, stops a little west of the Rover and looks around.]
146:35:23 Cernan: Hey, I'll tell you what impresses me about some of these rocks. There's a lot of...They may be zap pits...I guess you looked at them closer than I did, but there sure is a lot of lineation in some of that white material, Jack.
[Gene waves his forearm horizontally to indicate the orientation of the linearities he sees in the rock.]
146:35:34 Schmitt: But at what scale?

146:35:36 Cernan: Well, on a...on a...on a...on a visual-obvious scale.

146:35:40 Schmitt: Well, I mean the...Okay.

146:35:43 Cernan: I'll show you. If you don't...Let me see if it's up here. (Pause)

146:35:49 Schmitt: The crystal grains seem to be linear, but they are more or less random. Is that what you mean?

146:35:56 Cernan: No, they're linear, though. I can't...

146:35:58 Schmitt: Yeah.

146:35:00 Cernan: ...can't be really linear and random. There's some rocks here that are...

146:36:01 Schmitt: No, I mean...

146:36:02 Cernan: ...that are highly vesicular and there's others that are not.

[Jack leans on a three-foot rock.]
146:36:04 Schmitt: That's right.

146:36:05 Parker: Okay, and a reminder, 17...

146:36:07 Schmitt: Gene, if this is what you mean, it's...

146:36:08 Parker: ...you guys, that the primary priority is the blocks and then a rake soil of the white subfloor soil there. And you've only got 15 minutes before we want you driving back to the LM. Over.

Video Clip ( 3 min 06 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 31 Mb MPEG )

146:36:22 Cernan: Okay. We'll get to work. Okay...

146:36:25 Schmitt: Let's sample this.

[Gene puts the gnomon down; Jack stands up.]
146:36:27 Cernan: Okay. Let me get these two first and then we'll go get that one, because there's two different kinds here...at least apparent kinds. One's a relatively new fracture.

146:36:32 Schmitt: Well...

146:36:34 Cernan: Boy, I tell you, watch when you back up. (Garbled) you already...

146:36:37 Schmitt: (Garbled) told you.

146:36:38 Cernan: ...learned that. (Pause)

[Gene makes his way out of the boulder field to take cross-Suns from the south; Jack moves north out of the TV picture to take a cross-Sun from that direction.]

[Gene's photos are AS17-145- 22136 to 22138.]

[Jack's cross-Sun is AS17-133- 20328. Jack also takes a "locator" to the Rover, AS17-133- 20329.]

[Schmitt - "I was trying to get Gene to work on a bigger boulder just to the right of where I was standing here. It was one I was looking at earlier; and he set up at a different boulder and I was afraid we were going to lose the opportunity to get the structures. This is one of the few times - that I remember, anyway - that he didn't follow the lead I was trying to get him to take on the sampling. Also, there were fractures and planes in the bigger boulder that he could have sampled without bending over."]

[Cernan - "Twenty years later, Jack's just got a better memory about some of the details of the sampling. If you had something on your mind at the time, the pictures and transcripts will tend to bring them back. And, if you didn't have them on your mind at the time, there's nothing to recall. But I do remember being in that boulder field and that you really did have to watch your step. We were hopping around between rocks and boulders and you could have tripped on even a foot-high boulder. And you definitely didn't want to fall on another rock or boulder. I won't say that it was 'precarious' but it certainly was a challenging traverse through there."]

["It wasn't something you could train for, because there wasn't any way to really train for the one-sixth gravity. There was a training device called the Peter Pan rig (with harnesses to simulate some aspects of one-sixth gravity) which was used early on; but I don't think I used it after Apollo 10. But, with a little common sense, you can adapt. I mean, you don't go in there dumb and blind. You know there are boulders and, by this time in the mission, you certainly knew how to get around in one-sixth gravity. If you jumped off the LM for the first time and, right away, had to walk around in this boulder field, you wouldn't have the aggressiveness - and caution - we had. You wouldn't be adapted yet to one-sixth gravity. You wouldn't know the most productive ways of getting around and you wouldn't know the pitfalls as well."]

146:36:42 Cernan: (To himself) I've already cycled film.

146:36:44 Schmitt: We need to sample the structures, though, in this thing. We haven't really done that.

146:36:48 Cernan: We'll try and get a(n) "around-the-corner"...

146:36:50 Schmitt: And we've got to get...

146:36:51 Cernan: ...picture.

146:36:52 Schmitt: We need to get that stuff on the mantle, too. (Pause) I mean on the blocks.

[Gene gets the hammer out of his shin pocket.]
146:36:57 Cernan: Yup. Okay, we want to get an "around-the-corner" picture of one of those big ones, too. See if we can get the structure of it. Okay, you get your picture?

146:37:05 Schmitt: Yup. (Pause)

[Gene stands over the boulder and takes three low, nearly horizontal whacks at it.]
146:37:19 Cernan: Here's a piece right here.

146:37:20 Schmitt: Okay, can you hand me a bag, or I'll pick it up with a scoop, whichever you prefer. (Pause)

[Gene grabs the fragment with his tongs, then goes to Jack so that Jack can get a sample bag from him.]
146:37:29 Cernan: Get the bag? Let's see if we can fix your (sample) bag thing tonight. (Pause)
[Gene raises the tongs so that Jack can take the sample.]
146:37:41 Schmitt: Okay, I got it. (Pause) Okay, that looks like our old friend, the gabbro, all right. (Pause)
[Having examined the rock, Jack bags it. Gene dislodges another sample with three hammer blows.]
146:38:00 Cernan: How's that for a piece.

146:38:01 Schmitt: 462 is Gene's fairly freshly fractured rock.

[Once Jack finishes closing the first sample bag, Gene presents his SCB.]
146:38:07 Cernan: Okay, you can put it in the bag. (Pause)

146:38:16 Schmitt: Okay.

146:38:17 Cernan: Okay, here's another one right here.

146:38:20 Schmitt: That one?

146:38:21 Cernan: Yup. I can't squeeze these things (the tongs) anymore. Here they go. Got a bag?

146:38:28 Schmitt: Not yet. (Jack gets a bag) Okay. (Pause)

146:38:39 Cernan: You in there?

146:38:40 Schmitt: Ahh! (Long Pause)

[Jack had taken the sample from the tongs but now can't open the sample bag. Gene takes the sample from him; Jack opens the bag; and Gene inserts the sample.]
146:38:52 Cernan: Okay.

146:38:53 Schmitt: (Bag number) 463. Is another of the same variety. Wish we'd started on that structured rock because we're going to run out of time. Let's go over there and get at least one off of it.

146:39:13 Cernan: Yeah, we'll get it.

146:39:14 Schmitt: Get the "after". (Pause) Whoops.

[Jack drops the scoop, then asks Gene if he's finished taking the picture.]
Video Clip ( 3 min 13 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 32 Mb MPEG )

146:39:24 Schmitt: Got it?

146:39:26 Cernan: Got it. (Pause)

[Gene's stereopair of "afters" is AS17-145-22139 and 22140. Notice how dirty Jack's legs are. Jack uses the "step on the scoop head" retrieval trick again and Gene may have caught him in the act in the first of this pair of pictures. Gene gets the gnomon and they move away from the Rover a few feet to the chest-high, layered boulder.]
146:39:48 Schmitt: Okay, why don't we...

146:39:51 Cernan: What did you have picked out?

146:39:52 Schmitt: This in here with the layering in it.

[Looking at them standing close together at some distance from the Rover, Jack seems by far the dirtier.]
146:39:57 Parker: Okay, guys...

146:39:58 Schmitt: I'll get a...

146:39:59 Parker: ...looks like you'll be going in about 10 minutes.

146:40:00 Schmitt: ...flight line photo. (Responding to Bob) Yeah. (Pause) (To Gene) Why don't you get a flight line...

146:40:11 Cernan: I'm going to get that from here.

146:40:13 Schmitt: Sort of northeast. How you going to go?

146:40:15 Cernan: I'll come around from this end and go around to that side.

146:40:18 Schmitt: Okay, I'll go perpendicular to you more or less. (Long Pause)

[Gene takes a series of photos on an east-west line south of the boulder. His photos are AS17-145- 22141 to 22152.]

[Jack takes a similar series on a north-south line from the east. His photos are AS17-133- 20330 to 20335 20335. David Harland has assembled 20331 and 20335 into a mini-pan.]

146:40:53 Cernan: Boy, that one right behind you is just vesicular, by comparison, to a high degree - like three times as much. Oh, I hope those bags weren't in the way of every one of those pictures. Okay. (Pause) Boy, I tell you there ought to be a lot of permanent shaded samples in here, Jack.
[Gene leans on the boulder from the south.]
146:41:17 Schmitt: Okay, I got the down-Sun. (Pause)
[Gene strikes the rock ten times with the hammer: three slow and deliberate strokes, then seven quick strokes. Jack turns and takes a "locator" of the Rover. This is AS17-133-20336.]
146:41:25 Cernan: Man! (Pause) That's a hard Moon. (Pause) Just a little piece but that's...See...

146:41:41 Schmitt: How about this chunk down there, Gene?

146:41:42 Cernan: Where you looking?

146:41:43 Schmitt: That'd...

146:41:45 Cernan: I don't think that'll...That plate (shaped) piece?

146:41:47 Schmitt: Yeah.

[Jack points with the scoop to the lower east face.]
146:41:48 Cernan: I don't think that'll come off very easy.

146:41:50 Schmitt: Let's see your...

146:41:52 Cernan: I'll try...Here try it. You're over there.

[Gene hands Jack the hammer and takes the scoop.]
146:41:54 Cernan: You know I've worn the RTV off that hammer already.

146:41:57 Schmitt: Yeah, I saw that.

146:42:00 Parker: Roger, 17. Copy that.

[Cernan - "The rubber grip on the hammer was made of the same material as the glove finger tips."]

[Jack leans on the rock, takes a half swing and knocks the sample off.]


146:42:07 Schmitt: That's why...

146:42:08 Cernan: I wore the RTV...

146:42:09 Schmitt: That comes from 15 years as a trained hammer bearer.

[They trade hammer and scoop.]
146:42:18 Cernan: By golly, your geology training is coming in handy.

146:42:20 Schmitt: You learn where to hit rocks. (Pause)

[Jack gets the sample with the scoop.]
RealVideo Clip by Mick Hyde (10 min 13 sec)

Video Clip ( 3 min 38 sec 0.9 Mb RealVideo or 35 Mb MPEG )

146:42:27 Cernan: Bob, 3...(correcting himself) Well, 464. Won't all go in there but...

146:42:34 Schmitt: That's all right, you can wrap it around it.

146:42:40 Cernan: I'll get it...No, I'll get it, babe. It's in there.

146:42:43 Schmitt: Okay.

[Jack presents his SCB.]
146:42:49 Parker: Okay...

146:42:50 Cernan: Okay, let's...

146:42:51 Parker: ...Jack, and now...

146:42:52 Cernan: Bob, can we...

146:42:53 Parker: ...if you could get that rake soil and maybe also get the soil off the top of one of those boulders that you thought you saw.

[Jack hops toward the south. Gene takes an "after" picture (AS17-145-22153) and then gets the scoop off of the boulder where Jack left it.]
146:43:02 Schmitt: Yep. Whew. I've got to have Gene with me since (I) can't carry sample bags.

146:43:09 Parker: Roger.

146:43:10 Schmitt: I probably can if I'm careful; but I keep dropping them.

146:43:13 Cernan: (Looking at the boulders they've just sampled) These rocks here have an awful lot...a much greater density of the white minerals in them - or crystals - than I've ever seen before, Jack. Where did we see these kind before?

146:43:25 Schmitt: Well, when I looked at them right at first, that's what I thought. But I think that the zap pits are making the white stand out more. They're fooling you a little bit.

146:43:33 Cernan: They might.

[Frame AS17-145- 22176, a frame from the pan Gene will take at 146:48:44, shows numerous small, bright, white patches of shattered minerals - primarily shattered plagioclase feldspar crystals - associated with 'zaps' on the foreground boulders.]
146:43:34 Schmitt: Because when I looked at it with the hand lens, it looked like a fairly normal gabbro, like some of those that have crystallized with the mare basalt.

146:43:42 Cernan: Where are you? You ready to take them back...

146:43:43 Schmitt: I'm back over here. What I want is a sample of this soil off one of these rocks.

[Gene picks up the gnomon and goes off-camera toward Jack.]
146:43:47 Cernan: Okay, let's get that now and then let's get the rake sample. (Pause)

146:43:52 Schmitt: But it looks to me like it's soil that's been thrown up there rather than...(Pause) This rock is about 3 meters in diameter, but it's one of the flat-surfaced rocks. It only stands about - at the most - one-third of a meter high.

146:44:18 Parker: Copy that. (Pause)

[Fendell finds them working farther south, still among the boulders. The gnomon is on the flatish rock that Jack has just described. Gene is taking cross-Sun pictures from the north. These are AS17-145-22154 and 22155. Jack takes a down-Sun, AS17-133- 20337, and a locator, 20338.]
146:44:25 Schmitt: But we can get up about a meter from the soil/rock interface and get soil off the rock, I think. (Pause)

146:44:44 Cernan: Okay. See what you can do.

[Using the scoop, Jack skims some soil off the rock, at about knee height. After taking a picture of Jack doing the skimming (AS17-145-22156), Gene opens a bag.]

[Schmitt - "This type of sample would enable you to decide whether dark mantle had been laid down on top of the rocks or whether that material had all just been thrown up there from the regolith surrounding it."]

146:44:49 Schmitt: Whoops, oh, yeah; I got some soil.

146:44:51 Cernan: Don't kick up anything new.

146:44:53 Schmitt: No, that's all right.

146:44:56 Cernan: 455 is that bag number, Bob.

146:44:57 Parker: Copy that.

146:44:59 Schmitt: (Pouring the soil) Okay, this is soil from a half a meter in. It's about a centimeter deep and a half a meter in (from the outer edge of the top of the rock). (Pause)

[Jack skims another scoopful.]
146:45:18 Cernan: Let's take that chip there that's lying on top with the next scoop.

146:45:21 Schmitt: (Pouring) I'm going to...

146:45:23 Cernan: Let's take the soil on that. No. I was taking...No. Okay, take that one then. Well, that's another bag. Put this...Before you pick that one up, pick that little chip up...

146:45:29 Schmitt: Well...I don't want to get the chips. I want the soil. Either that or a coherent rock.

[Jack collects a third scoopful of soil off the top of the rock.]
146:45:35 Cernan: Okay, there you go.

146:45:37 Schmitt: (Pouring) I think we better leave it at that.

146:45:43 Cernan: Okay, 465. Pick that other one up and I'll bag it real quick.

146:45:45 Parker: Copy that.

146:45:49 Cernan: That's the soil from on top the rock. And we're taking a piece of the rock itself, which looks pretty much like the other one, Bob. It might be a little bit more vesicular.

Video Clip ( 3 min 47 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 37 Mb MPEG )

146:46:00 Parker: Okay, and that'll be in 466, right?

[Jack is now prying a fragment off the boulder with the scoop.]
146:46:06 Cernan: You're right again. Here we are and I'll be able to grab it with my hand. If I put this away. (Pause) Okay. (Pause)
[Gene puts the soil sample in Jack's SCB. Jack raises the scoop high enough that Gene can grab the fragment and bag it.]
146:46:23 Schmitt: Okay, the soil came from a half a meter in from the soil boundary. We need to get a...Let me get over here and try to get one bag of soil that's away from the boulder.
[Jack moves about five feet south.]
146:46:36 Cernan: I'm going to get my "after" while I'm here.
[Gene moves north to take AS17-145- 22157.]
146:46:38 Parker: Okay, 17...

146:46:40 Schmitt: (To Gene) Could you...(Hearing Bob) Could you...

146:46:41 Parker: Roger. And the present time, we drop the rake soil, we'd just like to get the kilogram of soil somewhere between the boulders - (in) as open (a location) as you can.

146:46:51 Schmitt: (Is) my scoop in that (picture)?

146:46:53 Cernan: It will be. (Garbled) Okay, it is now.

[This is AS17-145- 22158.]
146:47:00 Schmitt: (Responding to Bob) Oh, you want a kilogram?

146:47:02 Parker: Roger.

146:47:03 Schmitt: From between the boulders?

146:47:04 Parker: Roger. That'll replace the rake soil sample we were going to get. And we'd like you moving in 3 minutes.

146:47:12 Cernan: (Joining Jack and responding to Bob) Okay.

146:47:14 Schmitt: Let's do it right here.

146:47:15 Cernan: Yeah, right there. Let me...

[Gene wants to put a sample bag in Jack's SCB.]
146:47:17 Schmitt: Oh, okay. (Pause) This will be a matched pair with our soil sample, too.

146:47:29 Parker: Roger.

146:47:32 Cernan: Okay, bag 467 is where your kilogram is coming from.

146:47:36 Parker: Roger. (Pause)

[Jack gets and pours a first scoopful of soil.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 7 min 55 sec )

146:47:49 Cernan: Another scoopful.

146:47:50 Schmitt: Yeah. (To Bob) I'm sampling down to about 5 centimeters.

146:47:56 Parker: Copy. (Pause)

[Jack gets a second scoopful.]
146:48:03 Schmitt: Get your hand down, please. I'm coming down to you.

146:48:06 Cernan: Oh, okay. (Pause)

[Gene has been holding the bag too high for easy pouring.]
146:48:12 Schmitt: Okay.

146:48:15 Cernan: That's full. That's 467.

146:48:18 Schmitt: Pinch her down tight or that will leak out. (Pause)

[Gene closes the sample bag and puts it in Jack's SCB.]
146:48:27 Cernan: Now let me get your big bag (SCB) tight. [Gene takes a moment to either secure the lid on Jack's SCB or to adjust the attachment to the tool carrier.]
146:48:30 Schmitt: Okay, let me try to get a...(Pause) You got a shot of where my scoop was, didn't you?

146:48:39 Cernan: Yeah. Let me get an "after" of it, though.

[Gene moves northeast to take the "after" but decides to do a pan, instead.]
146:48:44 Schmitt: Okay, Houston, we sampled about 3 meters southwest of the gnomon that was set up for the top-of-boulder soil sample. So it's a match pair, really, in that regard.
[Gene turns to the east to start his panorama. These photos are AS17-145- 22159 to 22183. This is a superb pan. The version presented here was assembled by David Harland and includes all of the scene except the view directly north across Camelot. Marv Hein has assembled a VR version, albeit with the two edges of the gap in the Harland assembly stitched together.]

[Frame 22159 shows a view across the rim boulders toward Wessex Cleft.]

[Frames 22161 and 22162 are up-Sun views of the Rover. See, also, a detail from 22162. [Frame 22164 shows the East Massif on the left and, on the right, the low, dome shape of Bear Mountain.]

[Frame 22165 shows Jack running back to the Rover. Bear Mountain is above right-center and the East Massif dominates the left horizon. Note that Gene did not turn to his right after taking 22164, a clear indication that he saw Jack coming and decided to wait for him to come into the field-of-view. This superb picture is an intentional 'study' of Jack in motion.]

[Frame 22166 shows Bear Mountain, the low hill in the foreground. A detail shows a set of Rover tracks. The pattern of disturbance in the small crater on the left side of the image suggests that these tracks were made while Gene was driving from right to left, and probably while he was approaching the Station 5 parking place. [Frame 22171 shows the view to the west, with the sunward face of the Scarp visible beyond the foreground boulders. The brightness of the Scarp face is enhanced by its covering of avalanche material.]

[On the foreground boulders in frame AS17-145- 22176 we can see numerous small, bright, white patches of shattered minerals - primarily shattered plagioclase feldspar crystals - associated with 'zaps'.]

146:49:03 Schmitt: (To Gene) Don't forget your gnomon.

146:49:05 Cernan: I'm not. (Pause) Now I need to get a pan...

146:49:06 Schmitt: Are you getting a pan?

146:49:08 Cernan: I've already started it.

146:49:09 Schmitt: Okay, I'll go over near the Rover and get one. (Long Pause)

[Jack runs around the south edge of the boulder field, out onto open, flat, ground. He is moving very easily. Fendell pans to Gene who is still doing his pan.]
Video Clip ( 3 min 38 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 36 Mb MPEG )

146:50:03 Cernan: Okay, I got the gnomon. (Pause) When do you want us to leave, Bob? (No answer; pause)

[Gene starts toward the Rover, coming directly east and picking his way between the boulders. Jack has started his B&W pan and catches Gene making his way back to the Rover in AS17-133-20341. In a detail, he is visible above the seat backs. See, also, a two-frame pan made from 20341 and 42. The photos in Jack's pan are AS17-133- 20339 to 20361.]
146:50:20 Cernan: Jack, do you read me?

146:50:21 Schmitt: Yeah. (Pause) Hello, Houston.

[Gene turns south to get out in the open.]
146:50:24 Parker: Hello, 17. Loud and clear. We'd like you to leave immediately, if not sooner. (Pause)
[Gene switches from a running gait to a skipping gait.]

[Schmitt - "Gene doesn't seem to have picked up the rolling gait that you need to have in order to use a stride rather than a hop. And that may just be because he never did any cross-country skiing. It's a fairly natural motion, I think, for a cross-country skier."]

[Cernan - "Each individual adapts in a different way, but the results are basically the same. Some guys skip; some guys hop. And you pick a way of getting around that gives you the greatest comfort and mobility and productivity. I moved around in a half-dozen different ways and found I liked the old fifth-grade skip, because I could cover eight or ten feet in the air and come down - with stability - on both feet. Boom boom and up again. That was my way of really moving across the surface without expending a lot of energy. And that's probably why, subconsciously, I went that way rather than wobbling from side to side. Subconsciously, you sought a way of getting around that gave you a sense of security and required the least amount of energy. And I got my energy out of my knees by springing up like that. You shouldn't say, rigidly, 'you have to do it in this fashion'. It's like a golf swing, to some degree. You'll find a number of good golfers with totally different swings."]

146:50:40 Cernan: (Singing) Hippity-hoppity, hippity-hoppity, hippity-hopping over hill and dale.
[Cernan - "I don't know where I got the song from, but it's got to be a thousand years old. Some cowboy singer or something. This was fun! My feet just got far enough apart for stability when I hit the ground and then I could spring up with both of them. I was doing a little bit of the cross-country stride in the beginning, but I wasn't doing it with strides as big as Jack's, going way left and way right like he did. You were less balanced like that than when you were skipping, so I switched."]

[Gene now switches to a kangaroo or bunny hop. During our review of Station 6, it occurred to Gene that a tendon injury suffered about 5 to 6 weeks before the flight may have influenced his choice of gait. See his comments at 165:59:32.]

[Cernan - "In order to stop, I had to take a couple of steps to transition from the skip to a walk. It's like a horse that's in a gallop and slows down to a trot."]

146:50:53 Cernan: (Singing) Hippity-hopping along. (Pause)
[In 1996, Andrew Chaikin discovered that the song Gene is singing is "Mule Train". He stumbled upon a copy of the words and music, albeit without information on the authors or publication date. The lyrics Chaikin found are:

Mule Train.
Mule Train.
Clippity cloppin' over hill and plain.
Seems as how they never stop.
Clippity clop,
Clippity clop,
Clippity, clippity, clippity, clippity, clippity cloppin' a long.

Journal Contributor Brian Lawrence provides a history of the song. "It was written by veteran composers Hy Heath, Johnny Lange, and Fred Glickman, published by Walt Disney, and heard in the Republic Pictures western 'Singing Guns' (1950). In 1949 there were at least four versions on the Billboard charts, by Frankie Laine, Bing Crosby, Tennessee Ernie Ford, and Vaughn Monroe - who appeared in 'Singing Guns'. Its popularity led to an Academy Award nomination, but it lost out to 'Mona Lisa'. A late addition to the record charts came from Gene Autry, who also obtained the rights to use the song as the title for one of his self-produced westerns, 'Mule Train' (1950). I don't know, but it seems likely that Autry would have used the song in his TV series, 'The Gene Autry Show' (1950-55). Therefore it may be that Gene Cernan remembered the lyrics from Gene Autry's films and TV shows." Gene Cernan was born in 1934 and was 15 when the song became popular.]

[Gene reaches the Rover and stows the gnomon. Fendell pans away clockwise.]

146:51:07 Cernan: Okay. My golly, this time goes fast!

146:51:10 Parker: That's affirm.

[Schmitt - "It would have been nice to have had more time at Camelot, just like everywhere else. We hadn't seen much variety in the boulders we looked at and it would have been nice to go as far down the rim inside of Camelot as it was prudent to walk and then work our way - both sampling and observing - all the way to the edge of the boulder field and really see if there is any mineralogical or compositional variation. One of the hopes for the long-term future might be that these mare have stratified mineral deposits in them like the Bushveldt in South Africa and other places. It would be a ready way to get metallic resources for use on the Moon: for example, for making the teeth for any bucket-wheel miner you might have so that you don't have to keep importing those; you could just replace the teeth with ones you make on the Moon. But we just didn't have that kind of time."]

["Presumably, at the rim of Camelot we were sampling the deepest material that would have been thrown up out of Camelot. So maybe it was not unexpected that what we saw was fairly uniform; it would have cooled more slowly, probably, than other material we might have found. I don't think a rake sample would have added much because, again, we were dealing with pretty uniform stuff and it was just a question of what might have been thrown in there from somewhere else. And the other rake samples were already giving us that information."]

[Cernan - "It would have been nice to have more time. Time was your greatest asset because you're there at all; and it's your greatest enemy because you don't have enough of it. I would have liked to have walked down into that crater, too, and have spent some time down in the bottom. I think it could have been very interesting. It would have been a good walk out! But it would have been interesting."]

146:51:12 Parker: Okay, and when you leave here...

146:51:13 Cernan: Where did it (the time) go?

146:51:14 Parker: ...17, remember that we want to pick up...

146:51:16 Cernan: I'm giving you (gravimeter) readings.

146:51:17 Parker: ...EP number 8. (Responding to Gene) Roger. We're ready.

146:51:19 Schmitt: (To Gene) Go.

146:51:23 Cernan: 06...(Correcting himself) 670, 031, and 401. 670, 031, and, 401.

146:51:30 Parker: Copy that. And when we leave we want to take EP number 8 with us, guys. We'd like the SEP turned back on and the blankets closed. (Pause) Okay, Jack, I guess that's your option, you may...

146:51:46 Schmitt: Let me fix your...

146:51:48 Parker: ...stop and take the charge off when you get to the distance or, if it's only a short one, you might like carrying it in your lap.

146:51:55 Cernan: Jack, I can hold it in my left arm on the seat.

146:51:57 Schmitt: No, I'll get it! I'll get it!

146:51:59 Cernan: Okay, you want the SEP on?

146:52:00 Parker: That's affirm.

146:52:03 Cernan: Okay, both DSEA (Data Storage and Electronics Assembly) and the other switch. You want the blankets open?

146:52:10 Parker: No, closed.

146:52:14 Cernan: Closed. Well, closed is...What happened to the Velcro on that other side? (Pause) I thought they mounted that thing so that...

146:52:23 Schmitt: It came off, Gene. It stuck to the Velcro.

[When the adhesive holding patches of Velcro pile to the SEP Receiver bag failed, the patches remained mated with the hook patches on the covers.]
146:52:26 Cernan: That thing that, (garbled). Okay, you (Houston) got the TG(E reading). We'll get EP-8. The (TV) camera's going (off).

146:52:36 Schmitt: We made a mistake earlier and it's too late to rectify it in carrying these charges.

[Schmitt - "It was a mistake when I carried the charges for long distances, primarily the charge I'd carried on the traverse to Station 1 and the one I'd carried from Shorty to Victory. And, what couldn't be rectified was that my hands were already tired."]
146:52:42 Cernan: Oh, I don't know...

146:52:43 Parker: Negative, Jack...

146:52:44 Schmitt: We did. I wouldn't want...

[TV off.]
146:52:45 Parker: If you don't have it off, we could stop and get off and get it, if you want to? But this is a short distance. You might want to carry this one.

146:53:00 Schmitt: That's right, that's right. I say the mistake was made earlier. There's no problem now.

[Cernan - "Jack was a little testy here. He was probably a little tired. And your hands do get tired from holding the camera and holding the bags."]
146:53:03 Cernan: (Reading LMP/CDR-29) Okay, traverse to LM, low-gain 100.
[Gene will be driving on an average heading of about 090 to get back to the LM, and will use a low-gain antenna pointing of 100 on the indicator. LMP/CDR-28 is a map of this part of the traverse]
146:53:06 Schmitt: Did you turn this (SEP receiver) on?

146:53:08 Cernan: It's all on, all squared away.

146:53:09 Schmitt: Okay.

146:53:10 Cernan: Push that thing (probably the SEP cover) down and it'll stay. (Garbled). Well, sometimes it will. Okay.

146:53:16 Parker: And how about a frame callout before you get back on, guys.

146:53:19 Cernan: Got it.

146:53:23 Schmitt: Yeah, I need some new...(Responding to Bob) Do you want me to get it (a new magazine) here? (Pause)

146:53:33 Cernan: CDR's at fifty.

146:53:34 Parker: Copy that.

146:53:35 Schmitt: A hundred and seventy.

146:53:36 Parker: Copy one seven zero.

146:53:37 Schmitt: LMP's 170.

146:53:41 Parker: And, Jack, it'd be my opinion, since you're just going back over the same path, that you came up this morning, it's probably not necessary.

146:53:49 Schmitt: Okay, I'll use it until it runs out.

146:53:50 Parker: Okay.

146:53:52 Cernan: I've got a lot of film anyway.

146:53:53 Schmitt: (To Gene) But when you leave me at...Okay.

146:53:55 Parker: Yeah, we'll let Gene take some of the photos near the bomb, or near the charge, perhaps. (Pause)

146:54:07 Cernan: Just jump up again and get your bottom... Yeah, there you go. You got to come this way quite a bit.

146:54:13 Schmitt: Yeah. (Garbled) slope.

[Gene never did give a complete set of Rover readouts; but he parked the Rover with some noticeable pitch and roll. See his remark about Rover tilt at 146:25:25.]

[Schmitt - "It must have been tilted towards me - it usually was - and that made it tougher to get on."]

146:54:17 Cernan: Your seat's rising with you, for some reason. There it is, I guess. You're all right. (Pause) Up closer to you. (Pause)
[Jack is getting his seat belt on.]
146:54:42 Schmitt: Okay.

146:54:43 Cernan: Okay?

146:54:46 Schmitt: Let's go. (Long Pause)

[Cernan - (Tongue in cheek) "I always parked the Rover sloping towards Jack. It didn't make it tougher; it made it easier. It was lower to him and he didn't have to jump as high to get in. All he had to do was lean uphill. That was a Commander's prerogative. I particularly liked to drive on slopes with him on the downhill side."]
146:55:16 Cernan: Okay, the switch is coming On. (Pause) Okay. (Reading CDR-29) Traverse to LM: 12 minutes, 085/1.4. That's...Man, that (Rover indicator) says 086/1.4 to the LM, and my checklist (says) 085/1.4. We must have landed where they wanted us to!
[The checklist location of Station 5 is 088/1.2. They parked very close to the planned spot and the 086/1.4 reading is the actual location relative to the SEP transmitter. Gene is looking at checklist page CDR-29, which indicates a planned drive of 1.4 kilometers to the LM - including some extra distance to get around the southern rim of Camelot - on an initial heading of 085. He is mistaking these numbers for the planned range and bearing to the SEP which, again, are 088/1.2.]
146:55:39 Schmitt: Just about.

146:55:42 Cernan: Hey, Bob?

146:55:43 Parker: Roger.

146:55:45 Cernan: You know where we landed yet?

146:55:46 Parker: Well, we think so. We've been transecting (garbled) positions tonight.

[Houston has been using Rover navigation readings at known sites, such as this southwest rim of Camelot, to estimate the landing spot.]
146:55:54 Cernan: It must be...

146:55:56 Schmitt: It must be pretty close.

146:55:59 Cernan: You bet your life! (Obviously pleased with himself) I'm reading 085/1.4, and that's what my checklist said.

146:56:03 Parker: Roger. (Pause)

[Again, Gene is misreading his checklist.]
146:56:10 Schmitt: Okay, Bob; I guess my impression - and it's purely pure interpretation right at this stage - is that Camelot is mantled by whatever has formed the dark mantle.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 7 min 24 sec )

146:56:26 Parker: Copy that.

[Schmitt - "In the final analysis, of course, it turned out that the dark mantle - the orange and black soils that we found at Shorty - were deposited from fire fountains well before - like three and a half billion years before - either Camelot or Horatio were formed. And what gave the impression of younger age is exactly what had fooled the mappers; and that is that the dark regolith is so loose and moves so much that craters don't last very long in it. It doesn't retain small craters as long as other types of regolith do, so you get a false impression of youthfulness. And when you hit it, it spreads around and produces pretty much the same effects that you'd get from true mantling."]
146:56:30 Schmitt: It does not seem to be mantled to the degree that Horatio is.

146:56:34 Parker: Okay, copy that, too. (Pause)

[It is also possible that, because Camelot is younger than Horatio, it may have thrown ejecta out over Horatio, helping to obscure any blocks on the rim or walls.]


Traverse to Station 5 Apollo 17 Journal EVA-2 Close-out