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Geology Station 5 Traverse from Station 6 to Station 8


Geology Station 6

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1997-2015 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Except where noted, audio clips by Roland Speth.
Last revised 7 April 2018.


MP3 Audio Clip ( 9 min 52 sec )

145:58:36 England: And, Charlie, (we'd like the) DAC, On, as you start driving.

145:58:40 Young: Okay. We're in and we're on our way.

145:58:43 Duke: It's already On.

145:58:45 England: Okay. And Station 6 will be completely nominal.

145:58:46 Duke: Okay...(Stops to listen)

145:58:49 Young: Ahhhh.

[As per CDR/LMP-11, they are planning a 20-minute stop at Station 6 at the base of Stone Mountain. Brian MacInall has created a planimetric map of the traverse to Station 6.]
145:58:50 Duke: Okay. It says 360 at 2.9. Why don't we just make it 3.5 at 2.9.
[As indicated on the contour map, they are planning to stop at a LM bearing of 000 (=360) degrees and a range of 2.9 km at map coordinates BK.6/81.7. They are currently at a bearing/range of 353/3.5 and near map coordinates BH.7/82.7. As shown in figure D-23 in the Professional Paper, Station 6 is a map distance of 600 meters from Station 5 and the average slope is about 7/60 or about 6.7 degrees.]
145:59:01 Young: Okay, Charlie. I want to follow my tracks down this thing.
[Charlie's photos taken during the traverse to Station 6 ( 2.8 Mb PDF ) are AS16-108- 17585 to 17605. The first few of these show the outbound Rover tracks.]
145:59:03 Duke: That's fine.

145:59:08 Young: Okay, we're riding at idle (meaning that he is not applying any power to the wheels), and she's picking up speed.

145:59:12 England: Okay. And we would like Station 6 at the lowest terrace on Stone Mountain and a blocky crater, if possible.

145:59:27 Young: Understand. The lowest terrace (and) a blocky crater.

145:59:29 England: Rog.

145:59:32 Young: Charlie, where do you think Stone Mountain takes off in the...

145:59:37 Duke: I can see a place down here. See that...Off to the left, John, by where your tracks came up there....

145:59:43 Young: Yeah.

145:59:44 Duke: ...There's a pretty big crater, with some blocks around it. I think that might do. (Pause) Okay, Tony, where do you estimate one would be?

146:00:03 England: Okay. You'll be at...

146:00:04 Duke: Now, there's one right down there, John. (At) 12 o'clock, there's one. About 200 meters.

146:00:11 Young: Twelve o'clock, 200 meters?

146:00:12 Duke: Yeah.

146:00:14 England: Okay. You'll be in the neighborhood and range (at) about 3.0 or a little bit greater.

146:00:25 Duke: Okay!

146:00:26 Young: I'm just glad that we don't have that watch-the-Rover-go TV. (Laughing) Because I don't think we'd be going. (Pause)

[The Apollo 15 crew attempted to send TV signals while they were driving on a steady heading toward Hadley Rille on EVA-3. That experiment did not work. John is probably saying that, if Houston had real-time TV of this drive, the NASA managers would be having heart-failure and would make the crew stop and walk down the mountain.]
146:00:41 Duke: Okay, Tony, look in that...

146:00:45 Young: Where is it, Charlie?

146:00:46 Duke: Just to the left there, John. See those blocks over there in that crater.

146:00:50 Young: Say where.

[Because of the limited sideways visibility provide by the suit and John's need to watch the road, he probably can't see where Charlie is pointing and wants a verbal indication of direction. As he says in a moment, he also has his gold visor down and isn't getting much light.]
146:00:51 Duke: Okay, your 10 o'clock position.

146:00:54 Young: That big block there?

146:00:55 Duke: No. Well, on over farther than that.

146:00:56 Young: You want to take off and go that way now? I can't see nothing. I got my visor down.

146:01:05 Duke: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, now hook a left. No, not through this crater. Ha, ha.

146:01:10 Young: Yeah.

146:01:13 Duke: Right on the other side of this crater.

146:01:14 Young: Kind of expect trouble from backseat drivers.

146:01:16 England: Yeah, I've noticed that.

146:01:18 Duke: Well, that's only 3.3, John. Why don't we go down a little bit further.

146:01:24 Young: This one right here?

146:01:26 Duke: Yeah, that one's only 3.3 down. They think about 3.0. Turns out it's not a crater at all anyway. It's just a swale. (Pause) There are really some interesting angular blocks here. (Pause) Okay, Tony. It's still apparently...Well, we're steering (on a heading of) about 340 now, and we're getting some angular blocks and cobbles just as we described before. 20 percent of the surface (is covered), perhaps.

[Charlie's photo AS16-108- 17589 may show some of these blocks.]

[Cobbles are pieces of rock between about 64 mm and 256 mm. He is referring to pieces larger than cobbles as 'blocks'.]

146:02:13 England: Okay. The nominal Station 4 (means Station 6) would be on a bearing of 356 (based on the known LM location). (Pause) But you're going to have to use...

146:02:21 Duke: Okay. That's pretty good.

146:02:22 England: ...your own judgment.

146:02:30 Duke: We'll veer over that...(Stops to listen) Okay.

146:02:32 Young: 356 at what, Charlie?

146:02:33 Duke: At "2.9" it says.

146:02:34 England: 3.0.

146:02:39 Duke: (Hearing Tony) 3.0.

146:02:41 Young: Okay. (Long Pause) Like driving a camel.

146:02:55 Duke: Yeah.

[The undulating, cratered terrain is giving them a bouncy ride.]

[Jones - "I have to ask. Had you ever ridden a camel?"]

[Duke - "Not up to this time. I've ridden one later, and it doesn't remind me of riding a camel. I don't know what he's talking about."]

[Journal Contributor David Harland suggests an alternative explanation. Noting John's "backseat driver" comment at 146:01:14, David writes "John's just been given hasty instructions to make a turn, and went around the 'wrong' side of the crater. For the next minute or so, there is a debate between Duke and England about precisely where they'd best go and, when John says "It's like driving a camel", John is referring to a camel being 'a horse designed by a committee', and he's saying that he's having to drive with a committee of backseat drivers."]

146:02:56 Duke: And, Tony, over on Smoky (Mountain), it doesn't appear...I can see the lineations over there, but they're more widely spaced than (what Charlie saw) on Stone here (from the LM); and (they're) mostly parallel to the Cayley (meaning that the lineations are horizontal). (To John) Bear...Bear left a little bit, John, if you can. Okay, we're at 3(.0 km range). We can start looking for a place now.

146:03:32 Young: Here's the bench right down here, I think.

146:03:33 Duke: Yeah, I see it.

146:03:34 Young: Do you?

146:03:35 Duke: Yeah. Now if we drive along the bench, maybe we'll find a blocky crater. (Pause)

146:03:51 Young: Want to go right or left?

146:03:53 Duke: Left. (Pause) Because then Station 8's on over to the left. (Pause)

[As indicated on the contour map, they plan to drive west from Station 6 to get to Station 8. As shown by the contour map,the bench in the contours runs roughly northeast/southwest on this part of the mountain.]

[After they make the left turn, Charlie takes AS16-110-17600 and 601. They are driving somewhat left of down-Sun.]

146:04:05 Young: Look at that block there, Charlie!

146:04:06 Duke: Where?

146:04:07 Young: That big block right over there.

146:04:09 Duke: I know it. That's the one I described. It's a giant size. (Pause) Okay, Tony. We're at 3.0 (range) at 355 (bearing). Driving west, along a bench, trying to find a blocky crater.

146:04:32 England: Okay. Sounds good. (Pause)

146:04:43 Duke: Passing these big glass-splattered rocks that apparently came out of South Ray. (I) think every one of them did, frankly. (Pause) Hey, here's a crater here, John, that's about 10 meters (across), that (has a) fairly blocky rim, angular. Want to stop here? It's a secondary on this side.

146:05:19 Young: Yeah. What do you think?

146:05:21 Duke: Tony, it's a secondary (that was dug by a large piece of South Ray ejecta). We're at 357 and 3.1, and we got a secondary that's fairly blocky rimmed. There's one up just a little upslope from us that might be better. Though there's not as many blocks on the rim. Same size crater. (Pause)

146:05:44 England: Okay; we'd like the more blocky one.

146:05:51 Duke: Okay, I think it's a secondary.

146:05:53 England: Right, but it might...

146:05:54 Duke: Okay, you park a 180 here, John (as indicated on LMP-11).

146:05:55 England: ...have punched through.

146:05:59 Young: Okay; but I can't park 180. If I park 180, we'll be downslope from it.

146:06:07 Duke: No, the crater's over to the left.

146:06:08 Young: I know where the crater is.

146:06:10 Duke: Oh. (Pause) Why, don't you just park north? I can point that (high-gain) antenna north.

146:06:23 Young: Okay.

[Because they are near the lunar equator, Earth is not far from the zenith - the current elevation is 77 degrees - and Rover orientation is not critical in using the sighting scope on the high-gain.]

[Jones - "Was it easiest to align the scope if you stood in front of the Rover. Did you ever try to do it from the side?"]

[Duke - "Uh-huh. I don't remember it being any easier from the side or from the front. I really don't remember what I'm thinking about, here, when I said 'point the antenna north'."]

[Most of the pictures we have of astronauts aligning the antenna show them standing at the front of the vehicle. Charlie's comment may be related to variations in lighting conditions with Rover parking angle.]

146:06:24 Duke: You ought to get over here to the right a little bit so the TV won't be looking into the Sun. Okay, this is good; yeah.

146:06:37 Young: Now I'll just swing around and point it north. How will that be? There.

146:06:45 Duke: That's great. (Long Pause) Good show!

146:07:01 Young: Okay.

[Figure 24 from chapter D4 from the USGS Apollo 16 Professional Paper is a planimetric map of the Station. They have parked on the east rim of a 10-m crater, with the LRV heading south.]

[Brian McInall has revised and elaborated the Planimetric Map using LROC image M175179080LR and the Hasselblad images taken at Station 6.]

146:07:21 Duke: Okay, Tony; (reading the console)(heading) 180, (bearing) 357, (distance driven) 6.7, (range) 3.1, 100, 95; amps 0, 0. Well, maybe 2 amps each. Batts are 95 and 110; off-scale low, off-scale low, and off-scale low, off-scale low. Over.

146:07:31 England: Okay; we copy that, and verify DAC off.

146:07:38 Duke: Soon as I get out.

[The LM is near CB.1/80.6 and a bearing/range of 357/3.1 puts them near BK.6/81.4. A comparison of Figure 22 in the Professional Paper with Pan Camera frame 4623 indicates that Station 6 is near BL.8/81.1. The indicated error is a relatively large 250 meters and suggests wheel slippage. For comparison, position estimates for some easily determined places at the Apollo 17 site show errors of this magnitude. See the table at 164:48:12 in the Apollo 17 Journal.]
146:07:39 England: Okay. And we'll also need EMU checks here. (Pause)

146:07:47 Duke: Okay, I don't have any flags; I can't see my quantity. (Pause) I've got about sixty-five percent. Sixty-five percent and (pause) my pressure's good, and I haven't changed my cooling.

146:08:12 England: Okay.

146:08:13 Duke: Mmmm. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 0 min 13 sec )

146:08:16 Young: Okay. Now this is harder ...

146:08:18 Duke: It is.

146:08:19 Young: Boy, Charlie.

146:08:20 Duke: It is.

146:08:21 Young: This is ... hard ......

146:08:22 Duke: It's a lot harder.

146:08:23 Young: Yeah, I didn't...We didn't sink near...Of course, we're not standing on the rim of a crater. But this is harder, because we're just sort of bouncing here.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 0 min 54 sec )

146:08:31 Duke: Yeah, it's a lot more...Tony, the regolith character, as John said, has really changed.

146:08:41 Young: Okay, let me get the (LCRU)...

146:08:44 Duke: When we walk, we don't bounce as much...(correcting himself) I mean, we don't sink in as much.

146:08:50 Young: Go to (Mode) 2. (Static) Charlie?

146:09:05 England: Okay; we've got a picture. (Static fades)

[TV on. The camera is pointed east.]
146:09:13 Young: Rog. And you hardly got any dust on you, but I'm going to do you a favor and dust you off.

146:09:20 England: All right. (Long Pause)

Video Clip ( 2 min 44 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPEG )

MP3 Audio Clip ( 8 min 26 sec )

146:09:31 Young: What you doing there, Charlie?

146:09:33 Duke: (Trying to see) what this rock's made out of. I'm trying to get a fresh surface.

146:09:38 Young: I wouldn't do that. It's not worth doing. (Long Pause)

[Charlie is trying to break a piece off a rock to expose a clean surface. As he mentions in a moment, he is using the hammer. The largest rock visible in the pan that Charlie takes in a few minutes is shown in AS16-108- 17624, but a careful examination of that picture indicates that there are no footprints near it. Evidently Charlie is working on a much smaller rock near the Rover.]
146:09:54 Young: (Dusting the TV lens with the big brush) Let me help you there. That okay?

146:10:00 England: Ah, thank you much there, John.

146:10:01 Duke: Man, that is some rock. That matrix there's pure white, John, with black phenocryst in it. It might be clast. It might be a breccia. And it's got some lath-like crystals in it. (Pause)

146:10:29 Young: Look at that!

146:10:31 Duke: That's the one I'm talking about. See, I just broke that open.

146:10:34 Young: Yeah, that's a two-rock breccia. Let me get a bigger piece of it, Charlie.

146:10:37 Duke: Okay, I don't know. You can't whack it off.

146:10:40 Young: Too hard to whack?

146:10:41 Duke: Yeah, I've whacked about five times, as hard as I could.

[Fendell is panning clockwise, stopping every three degrees so that people in the Backroom can take a picture off the monitors.]

[Muehlberger, from a 1996 e-mail message - "Ed Fendell had control of the TV camera and the principal demand was to watch the astronaut activities to document what they were doing. At each stop, as soon as the TV antenna was properly oriented so that we got signal into Mission Control, Ed would do a 360 pan with the camera as we had requested. This (pan) was recorded on Polaroid film by Ray Batson and his photogrammetrists, who were part of our group. The Polaroid pictures were put together in a mosaic with important geologic features labeled and compass orientations marked in grease pencil. The mosaic was placed in front of me, usually within 5 minutes of arrival at the station. This gave us a visual summary of the immediate region and enabled us, when we didn't need to watch the astronauts, to ask Ed to move the camera '5 seconds to the right' - or whatever - and zoom in on a rock or the crater wall, etc. That way, we could get better views of the surroundings and offer sampling or photographic suggestions if we felt that they were necessary."]

146:10:44 Young: Okay, Houston, it has a white matrix with square clasts and elongate clasts in it.

146:10:50 England: Okay, sounds good.

146:10:51 Young: That might be...And it's rounded, too.

146:10:57 England: Very good, and we understand it's a two-rock breccia.

146:10:59 Duke: Looks like some more of them right down here, John, that are...(Stops to listen)

146:11:03 Young: (To Tony) That is correct.

146:11:05 Duke: ...that are sample size.

146:11:08 Young: Okay, let's get some of those.

146:11:10 Duke: We only got 20 minutes here. I'll start the pan.

146:11:15 Young: Okay. (Pause)

146:11:20 England: And, John, we'll need an EMU check.

146:11:26 Young: Okay. I'm reading 3.85 (pause) and no flags. (Pause)

146:11:43 Young: Every time I read my oxygen gauge, (laughing) I get an earful of orange juice.

146:11:48 Duke: Yeah, mine, too. (Pause)

[The oxygen gauge and the flags are positioned on the top of the chest-mounted RCU. When John ducked his head inside the bubble helmet to read the oxygen gauge, he probably pressed the drink valve and squirted himself. The oxygen gauge is on the left top of the RCU.]

[Jones - "How low did you have to get your chin to be able to read the oxygen gauge?"]

[Duke - "As low as you could get it."]

146:11:53 Young: Fifty-eight percent, and I'm between Intermediate and Minimum cooling.

146:12:03 England: Okay; we copy. (Pause)

Video Clip ( 2 min 52 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPEG )

146:12:07 Duke: Okay, pan's complete, Tony.

146:12:09 England: Very good.

[Charlie's Station 6 Pan consists of frames AS16-108-17606 to 17626.]

[Frame 17606 is a down-Sun and, although it looks very much like one of the traverse photos, the absence of the TV camera in the image is a good clue that Charlie is no longer on the Rover. This frame shows the northern part of the Station 6 crater.]

[In a detail from 17612, Don McMillan has labelled both the LM and House Rock.]

[Frame 17613 shows Smoky Mountain and North Ray Crater.]

[Frames 17616 and 17617 show the inbound Rover tracks.]

[Frames 17621, 17622, and 17623 show John at the back of the Rover, possibly as he gives Houston a reading of his oxygen gauge.]

[Frames 17624, 17625, and 17626 show the Station 6 crater.]

146:12:11 Duke: (Garbled) break. Grab the gnomon, John, and we...How about a set of tongs and a shovel? That ought to be good.

146:12:18 Young: Think that ought to work?

146:12:19 Duke: Yeah.

146:12:21 Young: Okay, that'll probably save us some energy.

146:12:25 Duke: Yep; think we might need it. Guess what?

146:12:29 Young: What?

146:12:30 Duke: Look at that. Where are the wheels? (Pause) See that?

146:12:35 Young: Yeah.

146:12:36 Duke: That's the gnomon stick. See the legs?

146:12:38 Young: Yeah.

146:12:39 Duke: They're still in the bag.

[The gnomon is stowed in a bag behind John's seat and, when Charlie grabbed the gnomon to pull it out, the vertical staff came out but the tripod (the "wheels" as Charlie called it) stayed in the bag.]
146:12:41 Young: Houston, you got any recommendations there?

146:12:44 England: Yeah, I think you ought to just use your scoop or something for a gnomon.

[By planting the scoop in the ground, they get a length scale and a shadow and lose only the reference to local vertical and the color/gray scale. Scoops served as gnomons at various points on all the J missions. Later, John and Charlie will use the tripod instead of the scoop, which will give them the color-gray scale.]
146:12:53 Young: See what happened?

146:12:55 England: No. We can't see it now...

146:12:56 Duke: Pulled it right out of there.

146:12:57 England: ...but I understand exactly what you mean.

146:12:58 Young: When you pull...(Stops to listen)

146:13:01 Duke: Okay, I got the wand, and the legs stayed in the bag. Okay, give me a shovel, John. We can use the scoop.

146:13:10 Young: Okay; well, we can use the shovel if...Where do you want to go?

[Fendell finds Charlie at the left rear of the Rover.]
146:13:15 Duke: I don't care. Anywhere is fine. This looks like a...Here's a nice little cracked one right there.

146:13:20 Young: Yup.

146:13:21 Duke: There's some angular and rounded rocks right there.

[As Fendell reaches the clockwise pan limit, Charlie goes off-camera to the left with John following.]
146:13:23 England: Just pick anything in the picture for scale...

146:13:24 Young: (Lost under Tony)

146:13:25 Duke: Okay. Super.

146:13:26 England: ...All we'll lose is the vertical (reference).

146:13:31 Young: (Responding to Tony) Okay

146:13:32 Duke: Okay. You can stick the tongs in there, John.

146:13:35 Young: Good.

[Fendell pans left and finds John planting the tongs beyond the right-rear fender. Charlie backs off-camera to our right to take a down-Sun.]
146:13:36 Duke: It'll go in the ground. I tried that a minute ago. It worked great. I don't see why I'm doing a down-Sun (pause) but I'll do it. (Pause)
[The down-Sun picture is designed to show the color/gray scale. Charlie's down-Sun is AS16-108- 17627.]
146:13:54 Duke: Okay, Tony; can you get a locator from the TV on this sample?

146:13:56 England: I sure can. We've got it now.

[John is adjusting the focus and f-stop on his camera before taking the cross-Sun "befores".]

[Each of the film magazines has a decal on the top which shows recommended f-stop settings for aiming directions relative to the Sun.]

146:13:59 Duke: (To Tony, not having heard the response) Just pan by it. (Responding to Tony) Okay; thank you. (Long Pause)
[John takes a stereopair from the north, AS16-107- 17512 and 17513. Charlie gets into position to collect a sample with the scoop and partially blocks our view of John. Once John is finished, Charlie slides the angled scoop under a rock that is visible between his legs and lifts it. Under Charlie's PLSS we can see a sample bag John has gotten ready.]
146:14:29 Young: (As Charlie positions the scoop to pour) Okay.

146:14:30 Duke: Excuse me. (Pause)

[Charlie may have just poured some dirt on John's glove.]
146:14:37 Duke: (Lowering the scoop) Okay.

146:14:38 Young: (To Houston) Okay, that's going in bag 407. It was some soil and some dirt, a rounded rock...Wait a minute, Charlie; let me get an "after" of that.

146:14:45 Duke: Okay. (Pause)

[John backs up to take AS16-107- 17514. Charlie also backs up to get his shadow off the sample area. This sample is 66035, a 211-gram breccia which is shown in Figures 54C and 54D in Professional Paper 1048.]
146:14:51 Young: Okay.

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146:14:53 Duke: Let's grab this angular one next.

146:14:55 Young: All right.

146:14:57 Duke: Okay?

146:14:58 Young: Yep.

[Charlie has the scoop in his left hand and, using it as a support, bends his right knee and lowers himself far enough that he can reach the rock with his right hand.]
146:14:59 Young: No, now...Wait...Charlie!

146:15:02 Duke: What?

146:15:03 Young: (Petulantly) Let me get it with the tongs.

146:15:06 Duke: (Rising with the rock) Leaning on that shovel is easy. (Pause)

[John steps back to take an "after", AS16-107- 17515. Charlie examines the rock. This is sample 66055, a 1.3 kilogram breccia shown in Figures 54G and 54H in the Professional Paper.]
146:15:14 Duke: Might be the same kind, John, that you picked up the way there.

146:15:21 Young: Yeah.

[John steps in with a bag; but Charlie is blocking our view.]
146:15:23 Duke: That one won't get sacked there.

146:15:29 Young: Maybe you can.

146:15:30 Duke: This is partially sacked. There we go. You got it!

[Evidently they had some trouble getting the rock in the bag.]
146:15:33 Young: Okay, that...Get the "after". Got it.
[This "after" is AS16-107- 17516. John may have forgotten that he has already taken one.]
146:15:41 Young: 408, Houston, is the bag number. (Pause)

146:15:52 Duke: Okay, I'll swap you. Why don't you get a soil sample?

146:15:56 LM Crew: (Garbled)

[Charlie hands the scoop to John. Note that Charlie has the hammer in his right shin pocket.]
146:15:57 Young: Okay; that's a good idea.

146:15:59 England: Okay, and you've got about 10 minutes left before we'll have to leave.

146:16:06 Young: Okay.

146:16:07 Duke: Okay; maybe we could go to one more area. And so we won't salt it with...This is just one broken-up block here.

146:16:17 England: Good plan. (Pause)

[Jones - "What did you mean when you said, 'so we won't salt it'?"]

[Duke - "What my point was, if we just stayed in one spot and all the samples just happened to be pieces of one rock that broke open, it wouldn't be representative of the whole area. So, we needed to move away and get some other samples."]

[In the Old West, unscrupulous mine owners would "salt" the property with gold from elsewhere to trick a potential buyer into thinking the mine was valuable. The gold that the owner scattered around was, of course, unrepresentative of the true content of the mine and it is that connotation of the term that Charlie is using.]

[John gets a soil sample and does an unusual left-handed pour, pivoting the scoop through vertical by rotating his hand and arm.]

146:16:21 England: Hey, you fellows are always thinking.

146:16:28 Duke: Well, we try to please. 338 is the soil sample.

146:16:35 England: Okay.

[John takes an "after", AS16-107- 17517. In Charlie's shadow, we can see him sealing the bag by spinning it.]
146:16:36 Duke: That spinning up that bag really works great.
[John starts digging a trench, probably looking for white soil and buried rocks.]
146:16:43 Duke: See anything down under there, John?

146:16:45 Young: No. This is a second(ary)...This is rim of it. It's very soft. I didn't have any trouble digging down with the shovel.

146:16:56 Duke: Solid gray all the way...

146:16:57 Young: Solid gray all the way down. I see no layering.

146:17:00 England: Okay.

[John stops digging and grabs the tongs. Charlie hops around to John's left side to get at his SCB.]
146:17:01 Duke: Let me put this (soil sample) in your bag. (Pause)

146:17:11 Duke: John, how about on the upper rim there? ...

146:17:14 Young: Look at...

146:17:15 Duke: This might have been a secondary.

[John points off-camera to the left with the tongs.]
146:17:17 Young: What's that right over there, Charlie?

146:17:18 Duke: It's a really a unique white-looking something-or-other.

146:17:23 Young: (Heading off-camera) Yeah. Let's see what that is. (Pause)

[Charlie and Fendell follow.]
146:17:32 Duke: I think it's soil. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 0 min 09 sec )

146:17:40 Young: Well, you want to get some of it? It's unusual soil, if it is.

[Fendell finds John, who is on the far side of the crater looking at his discovery.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 8 min 05 sec )

146:17:45 Duke: It might have been just a little...Yeah, it looks like a little teeny impact, doesn't it? (Pause) Hey, let's get a quick one and then go on up here and get some of these blocks on the upper rim.

Video Clip ( 2 min 44 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPEG )

146:18:02 Young: Okay.

[John has some trouble planting the tongs and digs a little hole for them.]
146:18:04 Duke: Okay, there's f/11 and...Okay. It's a down-Sun.
[Charlie's down-Sun is AS16-108- 17628.]
146:18:12 Duke: Run around and get a locator. (Pause)
[Charlie goes around behind John and climbs to the crater rim. John takes a cross-Sun stereopair from the north, AS16-107- 17518 and 17519.]
146:18:18 Duke: Boy, this one-sixth gravity is so neat! (Pause)
[Duke - "On the flat, it's neat."]

[Charlie adjusts his camera settings and takes a "locator", AS16-108-17629. John is getting ready to collect a sample with the scoop.]

146:18:28 Duke: Got you a bag coming, John.
[John is standing below the sampling site and slides the scoop into the crater wall. Charlie joins him gets a sample bag ready.]
146:18:33 Duke: Okay, Tony, what we're picking up is a white...It looks like a little patch of indurated regolith, and it's whitish in color.

146:18:47 England: Okay; we copy.

[John pours.]
146:18:51 Duke: Okay, let's get a little bit more of the white, John. That got most of it; it was just on the end of the scoop.

146:18:57 Young: Okay. (Pause)

[Apparently, John only poured the white portion of the sample into the bag. He discards the remainder and carefully slides the scoop into the white patch a second time.]
146:19:00 Duke: There's a good...Oh, that's great. (Pause) This orange juice is (garbled). (Pause)
[John pours, putting the scoop in the bag and then raising the handle through vertical by moving his right hand forward.]
146:19:23 Young: That got it?

146:19:24 Duke: Yeah, that's got it. (Sealing the bag) I'll get your "after".

146:19:27 Young: I'll get it, Charlie.

[John gets into position to take a cross-Sun "after" from the north. He turns up-Sun to get some light on his camera, changes the settings, and then turns back to take the picture.]
146:19:28 Duke: Okay. (To Houston) Okay, that soil sample's in 339, Tony.

146:19:33 England: Okay; 339.

[John takes AS16-107- 17520.]
146:19:37 Young: And I'm through frame count 106, now.

146:19:41 England: Okay; 106.

[John turns, faces north, and stands motionless for several seconds. He may be urinating.]
146:19:46 Duke: Maybe we can get a chance to get up another sample. (Garbled)

146:19:53 England: Okay, you've got about time for just one more.

146:19:56 Duke: Okay. (Responding to Tony) Okay!

[Charlie grabs the tongs and goes off-camera to the left. John turns and follows.]
146:20:02 Young: I been hankering for a piece off that rock.
[John is probably talking about the meter-sized rock on the southeast wall of the crater that is shown in AS16-108- 17624. As Fendell pans left to follow John and find Charlie, he pulls back on the zoom.]

[Fendell, from a 1996 interview - "There were some real interesting little tricks you learned with the thing, once you got the crewmen up, that you never learned with the training. And I'll tell you what that was. When you look at the video, you'll probably notice that, the majority of the time when you were watching a crewman, if he started to move, the first thing the camera does is it opens up. If you're smart, the first button you hit was zoom out."]

[Jones - "I've noticed you doing that."]

[Fendell - "And the reason that worked so great was, when you hit zoom out, no matter which way he was going, you were able to keep him within the field-of-view and decide which way he was going. And that just came by experience, trying it. If you hit the zoom out, then you kept the field open; then you could figure 'he's starting to move left.' You can do that and then, as he moves, you follow him and, then, if he stops, you can zoom down on what he's doing. And you'll notice that's kind of the way it happens. It's kind of an 'Open up, left, right, in, tweak'. I remember enough of that. That's how you handled the delay and the movement of the crew."]

[Jones - "A nice trick."]

[Fendell - "It worked pretty good. And then we tweaked using those increment commands."]

[Fendell - "There was actually two other guys who controlled the camera at some times on Apollo 16. A fellow by the name of Al Pennington, who is a Flight Director over there now. And a fellow by the name of Gary Scott, who's not there any more. But on 15 and 17, I only controlled the camera."]

[When Fendell finds Charlie at the location of sample 66075 as shown in Figure 25 in the Stone Mountain Chapter of the Professional Paper. The meter-sized rock is in the foreground of the TV picture.]

146:20:05 Duke: Here's an old rounded one right here, John. With the white spots in it. I don't see...(Pointing left) Here's a real angular one right over here. It's probably out of ...

146:20:20 Young: Let's get this rounded one, Charlie...

146:20:21 Duke: Okay.

146:20:22 Young: ...just on a hunch.

146:20:24 Duke: Okay, I agree. (Pause)

[They are working on the hypothesis that angular rocks on the surface are likely to be fragments of South Ray ejecta while rounded rocks might be samples of the Descartes formation.]

[John plants the scoop and Charlie gets into position to take the down-Sun, AS16-108- 17630.]

146:20:30 Duke: Down-Sun, here. (Pause) Got it.

146:20:39 Young: Wait a minute.

[John takes a cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-107- 17521 and 17522.]
Video Clip ( 3 min 7 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 27 Mb MPEG )

146:20:41 Duke: Get a locator. (Long Pause)

[Charlie hops sideways around the south side of the sample location to take up-Sun "locator" AS16-108- 17631.]
146:20:56 Duke: Okay. (Pause)
[Charlie moves in with the tongs and gets the sample without trouble. He raises it high enough that he can remove it from the tongs with his right hand and then drops it directly into the bag John is holding open.]
146:21:08 Duke: (Garbled) Ah, good show.
[During John's next transmission, Charlie plants the tongs and then reaches down and gets the hammer out of his right shin pocket.]
146:21:12 Young: In bag 409, Houston. And it's so dust-covered that I'm unable to describe it, although it's a white subrounded rock. And I can't distinguish any crystalline structure in it. It's going in bag 409.

146:21:29 England: Okay; and you've got 5 minutes here.

[This is sample 66075, a 347-gram breccia shown in Figures 55C and 55D in the Professional Paper. John hands the sample bag to Charlie and presents his SCB.]
146:21:34 Young: Charlie, put that one in mine. Yours is full, almost.

146:21:36 Duke: Okay. Yours is getting full, too. We got to change out bags. (Getting in position to stow the sample) Whoops! (Pause) (Incredulous) My bag is full?

146:21:47 Young: Almost.

146:21:48 Duke: Okay. There you go.

146:21:49 England: Yeah; you fellows have been really scooping them up there.

146:21:54 Duke: Hey, John?

146:21:55 Young: Yeah.

[Charlie goes off-camera to the left. John follows with the scoop and tongs. Fendell pans to follow John.]
146:21:56 Duke: Bring me the scoop a minute. Let me whack this thing right here. It's so tempting I can't pass it up. (Pause)
[Charlie has stopped next to a half-meter, flat-topped rock which is on the crater rim beyond the meter-sized rock in AS16-108- 17624. See, also, the rock labeled "66095" in Figure 57A in the Professional Paper.]
146:22:06 Duke: All right, there's a good place to whack. Something to lean on. (Taking the scoop) Thank you. (Pause)
[Charlie leans forward on the scoop, hits the rock, and breaks off a small piece.]
146:22:15 Young: Oh, that's hard. You got it!

146:22:16 England: Good show!

[A second blow dislodges a fist-sized piece.]
146:22:17 Young: Charlie, beautiful.

146:22:18 England: Demolished it.

146:22:19 Duke: Hey, that's a great rock! Look at that!! (Standing) I'm sorry we didn't get it documented before, Tony, but that is a good sample. It's a...I think it's a crystalline rock. Just a minute...

[Charlie plants the scoop and stows the hammer in his pocket.]

[Jones - "Does the suit restrict your swinging motion at all?"]

[Duke - "Oh, it does! It's hard to grab the hammer, even. Sometimes it'd twist in your hand if you didn't hit it solid."]

[Jones - "You're lifting the head up to about helmet height; but it looks mostly like it's an elbow (bend)..."]

[Duke - "You couldn't get it up much above that."]

[Jones - "It's almost all elbow bend, isn't it?"]

[Duke - "That's right."]

146:22:32 England: Okay, let's go ahead and document it now. ...

146:22:33 Duke: ...let me look at it.

146:22:34 England: ...We'll get the location of the one that's still in place (meaning the parent rock). It didn't look like it moved.

146:22:40 Young: No, he didn't move anything there. I'm gonna do an up-Sun on this documentation.

146:22:44 Duke: Okay, I'll get a cross-Sun here. It's a grayish-bluish (pause) rock, Tony, in the matrix with some white clast in it. (Pause)

[John takes up-Sun photos AS16-107- 17523, 17524, and 17525.]

[The larger piece that Charlie broke off the rock is lying on the surface at right center in 17523. It came off the shallow trough at the top of the far side of the rock. It is sample 66095, a 1185-gram piece of impact melt, which acquired the name 'Rusty Rock' because of brown stains found, in particular, around iron grains within the rock. The origin of the stains - lunar or terrestrial - has not been resolved.]

[In frame 17524, the fragment is at left center.]

[Fendell zooms in on the rock while John backs up and takes 17526.]

Off-camera, Charlie takes a cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-108- 17632 and 17633.]

[The sample is 66095, a 1.2 kilogram breccia, and is shown in Figures 57C and 57D in the Professional Paper. In the TV picture, the fresh surface on the parent rock is quite bright.]

[Charlie leans on the scoop, goes down on his left knee and grabs the fragment without trouble.]

146:23:06 Young: (Petulantly) Oh, Ch(arlie)...Let me get it with the (tongs)...

146:23:11 Duke: Isn't any trouble, John. (Pause)

[Charlie stands. Fendell pulls back on the zoom and John steps in with a sample bag.]
146:23:22 Duke: Man, the matrix is so fine-grained, I can't tell, Tony; but it's definitely got a blue cast to it and there are inclusions of a whitish...It looked like plage to me.

146:23:34 England: Okay; we copy that. Sounds great....

146:23:36 Young: (Garbled)

146:23:36 England: We're gonna have to move out. (Pause)

Video Clip ( 2 min 1 sec 0.5 Mb RealVideo or 18 Mb MPEG )

146:23:42 Duke: (Responding to Tony) Okay.

[John takes the fragment for examination.]
146:23:45 Young: And, ah, needle-like, black crystals in it, too.

146:23:48 Duke: Yeah.

[While John examines the rock, Charlie grabs the tongs and picks up the first fragment he broke off.]
146:23:49 Young: I see one in there that's a millimeter wide by 3 millimeters long, and some other needle-like crystals in it.

146:23:58 Duke: Here's another piece (that) came off the same rock.

146:24:02 Young: It has this white clast in it. It's got to be a breccia, Charlie.

146:24:07 Duke: Think so? Yeah. They don't really look like...

[Charlie puts the small sample in the bag and, while John seals it, Charlie grabs the scoop.]
146:24:13 Young: That's going in bag 41...410.

146:24:17 England: Okay; 410.

[Charlie presents his SCB.]
146:24:21 Duke: Okay. Tony, when you say 5 minutes, does that mean that we be on the Rover moving?

146:24:27 England: Okay, that's the rolling time. It's time to load up right now.

146:24:29 Duke: Well, good. (Responding to Tony) Okay. Yours is hooked, too, John.

146:24:37 Young: How do you get it unhooked?

[Evidently, Charlie's SCB has come unhooked at the bottom. John takes a moment to re-fasten it.]
146:24:38 Duke: Well, I don't know. Did you get it?

146:24:44 Young: Our training bags never did hook.

146:24:47 Duke: I know it. (John chuckles) No, they...

146:24:49 Young: (Garbled)

[Duke - "We had a real problem with the (individual) sample bags and the Sample Collection Bags (SCBs). The sample bags were the small ones (that) looked little sandwich bags. And they were always falling off. We had a little hook for 'em that fit up on our camera; and they were just unwieldy. You had a difficult time pulling one off and the ring holder that held them together broke or they would fall off. And, then, the hooks for the Sample Collection Bag on the side of the PLSS was a real headache - to get it on and to get it off. It seemed like it took you forever to get it on and then it would just fall off! Or, you'd try to get it off, and you couldn't get it off. And it just never seemed to be any rhyme or reason; so, I think, as you go on more extended EVAs, we've got to pay careful attention to the design and development of the latching mechanisms of the sample containers and the hooking mechanism for the backpack - or the shopping bag concept or whatever is decided. There's got to be a lot of attention to detail put into that. It's not just a simple matter to get those samples into the bags and the bags collected and stored somewhere. I think the most frustrating thing of the whole EVA was that we were always looking for sample bags because they'd fall off. Finally, on the last EVA, I ended up pushing a few of them on the end of the little finger of my glove. And I tried to operate that way; you know, get em' in my hand some way, so we wouldn't lose 'em. Because they wouldn't stay on the camera or where we'd placed 'em, because of broken latches and hooks and stuff. Those are the little things that end up biting you and taking time and interfering with the normal procedures."]

[Jones - "Not to mention posing the risk of losing samples and wasting an enormous amount of time."]

[Duke - "Right. In fact, later on in here, we'll find out that John's Sample Collection Bag fell off his backpack...Fortunately, when it did it bounced and wedged itself between the frame and the fender of the Rover - or it could have bounced off on the Moon and, you know, it'd have been long gone because we were making a big loop and, to find it, we would have had to retrace our steps - you know, go counter-clockwise - to get back. If you're just going out and back along the same route, if you lose it on the way out you can find it on the way back. But, if you lose it on the way back, you get back to the LM and you've got to turn around and go the other way. Those little details are important when you get down to the working aspect of an EVA."]

146:24:50 Duke: Okay; I'll put this up.
[Charlie has the tongs and scoop and is saying that he will stow them on the back of the Rover.]
146:24:52 Young: Okay.

146:24:53 Duke: You go get the TV. (Pause)

[Charlie heads for the Rover using his skipping stride and John follows close behind using the loping, foot-to-foot stride. Fendell pulls back on the zoom to keep them framed.]
146:24:58 Young: Boy, is this a neat way to travel!

146:25:00 Duke: Isn't it great? I like to skip along.

146:25:04 Young: Not me, boy.

146:25:08 England: Ah, Charlie, you're pure grace.

146:25:09 Young: Okay. (Pause) (Scornfully) Skip.

146:25:19 Duke: Well, whatever you call it.

146:25:20 Young: (Laughing) Okay.

146:25:24 Duke: (Joking) I can't get my left leg in front of me. Oh, the docs never knew! (Pause)

146:25:33 England: You fooled them again.

[Jones - "Do you have any general comments that you'd like to make at this point, comparing this EVA with the first one?"]

[Duke - "I think we're a little bit more familiar with the terrain and the one-sixth gravity. You know, you get more and more feeling at home. More confidence in the equipment. So I think we're working a little bit more efficiently."]

[Jones - "You certainly seem to be very relaxed."]

[Duke - "Yeah; more organized."]

[Jones - "Was there a bit more - I don't know if nervousness is the right word, maybe excitement or adrenaline would be better - during the first EVA?"]

[Duke - "Oh, I think it was just excitement. I never had a moment I felt of nervousness; expect for the time when I fell over backwards at the end. That was scary!"]

[Jones - "More excitement, then, that first day."]

[Duke - "No. I don't think it was more exciting. You're just seeing different things. It's like you have an exciting trip going to the coast of South Carolina, but you can have an exciting trip going to Idaho, too. So it's that kind of difference in excitement, I think."]

[Fendell gets a good close up of John reading his checklist and turning the page.]

146:25:34 Young: Okay; we're going mode switch to 1.

146:25:36 England: Okay.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 0 min 28 sec )

146:25:38 Duke: (Continuing the joke from 146:25:24) I knew it was gonna come in handy some day.

[TV off.]
146:25:42 Young: And the TV is going up to CCW (counter-clockwise).

146:25:46 Duke: Okay; and we've got the...Hey, is the DAC supposed to be on? Yes, the DAC on. Okay. Turning the DAC on.

146:25:57 England: Okay.

146:25:58 Duke: The DAC is on, and now watch this big leap. Oh, oh. Can't leap. I'm hooked onto something.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 3 min 09 sec )

146:26:15 Duke: Oh, you rat! (Pause) Sorry, John. But my seatbelt fell off.

[Charlie had the free end of his seatbelt hooked to the console or something else convenient and has knocked it off, out of reach.]
146:26:27 Young: Fell off?

146:26:28 Duke: Well, it was on the floor. (Pause)

[Jones - "When you were seated, could you see things in the footpan?"]

[Duke - "Only at your feet, you could; you couldn't see close to the seat. You ended up sitting...When you got in, you were almost stiff. And then you buckled the seatbelt and then you tightened it in, that sort of helped bend the suit so you could get your rear end back in against the seat."]

[Jones - "Of course!"]

[Duke - "What I was talking about there at 25:58, I think, is (that) I was going to leap in. The way you got into the Rover - for me, anyway - was to hold on to the omni-antenna mast and bounce a couple of times and jump up and sort of pull yourself in; and that just brought you over to the seat and then you'd plop down on the seat. And I was going to do a big leap, here, but I got a pocket or something hooked on the side of the Rover and I didn't go up. Then, as I got in the Rover, I said my seatbelt fell off and, then, that's what John was..."]

[Jones - "So you couldn't see it and couldn't feel for it, so you had to get off to get it re-positioned?"]

[Duke - "Well, I think so. Yeah. Uh-huh. Either I'm on the Rover here and I'm going to leap off and I get hooked on something, or I'm off and I can't get in. I think I'm in and I can't get off, as a matter of fact, because my seatbelt fell off and I had to get out to retrieve it."]

[Jones - "Yeah. That's what it reads like. And you just grab on to the Rover and pull yourself up. I gather that was no problem."]

[Duke - "Yeah."]

[The following dialog suggests that after Charlie dismounted and re-positioned his seatbelt, he tried to jump back on and fell.]

146:26:40 Young: Charlie!?

146:26:41 Duke: What? (Pause) (I) fell down again, John.

146:26:48 Young: Yeah, I saw that. (Pause) Can you make it? You want me to get out and help you?

146:26:55 Duke: No, I'm getting it now that I'm next to the Rover. Agh. My backpack hit the seat and just vaulted me off. How does my (Hasselblad) camera lens look?

146:27:08 Young: Dusty; we'll dust it at the next place.

146:27:10 Duke: Okay.

146:27:12 England: And, Charlie, we'll need a frame count.

146:27:14 Duke: I'm sorry it's taking me...(Stops to listen) Oh, yeah.

146:27:19 Young: Okay, mine is 111.

146:27:24 England: Okay, 111.

146:27:29 Duke: Fifty for me.

146:27:31 Young: Charlie?

146:27:32 Duke: What?

146:27:33 England: Okay; 50.

146:27:34 Young: Your back...We're gonna have to...You knocked off your whatchacallit, your...

146:27:38 Duke: Is that my bag?

146:27:39 Young: Yeah, it...Wait a minute. It's not off, but it will be in a second. It's loose. Turn around and let me see. No, it's Velcroed on.

146:27:49 Duke: Okay; good.

[Charlie is probably not on the Rover at this moment. If he was, he couldn't have turned far enough for John to see the fastenings on his SCB.]
146:27:52 Young: That would be bad (to lose a full SCB).

146:27:57 Duke: Yeah, wait a minute. I hate to say it, John, but I'm going to have to take a minute and fix this Buddy SLSS bag.

146:28:02 Young: Okay.

146:28:03 Duke: About to come loose. (Don't want to) lose that. (Pause) Hey, Tony, we're delaying slightly. The Buddy SLSS bag was working loose.

146:28:21 England: Okay.

146:28:25 Duke: Okay, there it is. (Pause)

[Very few of the astronauts remembered much about the Buddy Secondary Life-Support System. It was actually a set of hoses that would allow them to share cooling water in the event of a PLSS failure. Most remembered it, dimly, as a way to share oxygen. Several of them stated that the lack of a clear memory was an indication that they hadn't believed it likely that the need to use the BSLSS would arise.]

[Duke - "Yeah, we had a buddy hose, but I'm not sure whether it was just one or...Whether it was just cooling water. I think it was just cooling water, in case your sublimator or something went out on your PLSS. It was a way to stay cool. And I remember you had about thirty minutes at regular workload without the LCG before you got heatstroke, I guess. So we designed this buddy system."]

[Jones - "I gather the BSLSS was stowed behind your seat."]

[Duke - "It was hooked behind one of the seats. It had a little handle on it, like a little flexible briefcase. And it was Velcroed closed, I believe. What you did is: you took a piece of Velcro from the back of the seat, stuck it through the handle, wrapped it around a couple of times and just Velcroed it on. And it sat there and bounced, actually. And, apparently, the Velcro was coming loose or something; I don't remember how it was looking, but it began to work it's way loose. And I believe it was behind my seat, but I'm not really sure."]

[The BSLSS bag was stowed behind Charlie's seat, as can be seen in AS16-108-17729.]

[Jones - "Had you done much training on the disconnects/reconnects in the field?"]

[Duke - "Not a lot. But we'd done it enough. It was a simple procedure. We could have done that with no problem."]

146:28:40 Young: Are you doing okay, Charlie?

146:28:42 Duke: Yeah; I'm doing fine.

146:28:43 Young: Okay.

146:28:44 Duke: I just can't get my PLSS back in...There we go.

146:28:50 Young: All set?

146:28:51 Duke: Just a minute. (Pause) Dadgum seatbelt. Well. Okay; there. I'm in, finally.

146:29:14 England: Okay, and we understand the DAC is on?

146:29:16 Young: Okay; Primary (power).

146:29:18 Duke: (Responding to Tony) Yes, sir.

146:29:21 England: Great.


Geology Station 5 Apollo 16 Journal Traverse from Station 6 to Station 8