WEBVTT

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Hi, my name is Pat Leisel and I
work at the NASA Glenn Research

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Center in the Power division.

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I work in the area of power
generation and energy storage,

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but primarily my expertise lies
in the area of battery and fuel

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cells.

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I've worked in areas anywhere
from basic research and

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development all the way up to
system design and analysis.

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So what I'd like to do today is
spend a few minutes with you and

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talk about our new STTR
solicitation on batteries, what

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we're looking for, what we'd
like to see and what we hope to

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accomplish by this.

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For our future missions to the
moon, we need a reliable energy

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storage system.

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Unfortunately, because of the
extremely low temperatures that

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we see on the surface of the
moon, it's very difficult to do

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that with conventional batteries
that are available today.

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Typically we can do it, but we
have to add a lot of extra

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thermal conditioning, which adds
mass, which we really, really

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want to avoid.

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So what do we want?

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So what we'd like to do out of
the solicitation is end up with

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a battery cell that is capable
of being able to operate at -80°

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C and be able to do that at a
rate of C / 20.

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Now operate.

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By operate I mean charging and
discharging that same cell.

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We would like to see at A at 20°
C to have a specific energy of

b3d0a83c-69b9-420c-a4c9-78f0a766b04b-1
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300 Watt hours per kilogram or
greater and we'd like to excel

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to be capable of being able to
charge and discharge at least

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100 times.

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So to meet these metrics we
would expect that you know

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things like the battery
chemistry or the materials or

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the overall packaging or any of
the three are combined would be

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used.

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The catch is we don't want to
see just a demonstration of an

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individual component, we want to
see everything demonstrated on a

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full cell to show us the actual
feasibility.

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So for the phase one, it's
totally acceptable to

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demonstrate these the initial
feasibility on something like a

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coin cell, but we would want to
see the performance projected

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onto a cell that's a hard case
to amp our cells so we know

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exactly where we would be going
into once we start getting into

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more mission sized cells.

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So at the end of that phase one
period, we would expect that the

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technical feasibility would be
demonstrated at least the

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initial and that you would
outline an approach on how your

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continued work of that
development would be used to

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meet our final metrics.

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And again, that is operation at
-80° at a rate of C / 20 with at

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least 100 cycles and 300 Watt
hours per kilogram specific

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energy at 20° C So right now,
state-of-the-art battery cells

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are very limited in how low a
temperature they can operate at.

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Typically they're limited to
-30° C and above, and at that

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-30° temperature their
performance is severely limited.

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So in order to typically operate
there, now what we have to do is

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surround them with a thermal
control system.

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The problem is, is that as adds
system complexity, add system

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mass and it increases the
parasitic power draw.

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All of that rolled up ends up
being a heavier system to go on

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the vehicle, which we really are
trying to avoid.

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So by incorporating a lower
temperature capable cell, we can

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eliminate or reduce the amount
of thermal control we actually

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have to wrap around that cell,
which is eventually going to

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result in a much lower mass
subsystem to go on a vehicle for

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the future.

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So at the end of a successful
phase two effort, we would

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expect that the battery
technologies that meet our goal

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would continue to be developed
and scaled up.

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We'd want to start scaling up
the cell size to be of a size

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that would be compatible with
some of the mission needs for

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the Artemis Exploration and
Science missions.

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So while our initial focus is is
on this solicitation is for the

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moon.

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There's the other side that if
you come up with a battery

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system that is compatible with
low temperature operation

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without a lot of extra
subsystems surrounding it, it

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could also find use on the
surface of Mars.

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In addition to that, there are
potential future NASA emissions

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that are starting to go would go
out to the outer planets.

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So there is potential that the
cells could be used on missions

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going out to some place like
Neptune or an ocean world like

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Europa.

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So while the initial development
of these under the solicitation

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is for the moon, it would not
necessarily be the end place.

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There are a lot of future
missions that could really use

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low temperature capability that
didn't need a lot of extra

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subsystems surrounding it.

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So in addition to our space
needs for low temperature cells,

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there's actually some
applications on the outside in

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terrestrial applications that
could use a a battery cell that

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was capable of operating at
lower temperatures.

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Electric cars and hybrid
electric cars, especially in the

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northern climates really
struggle when the temperatures

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start getting lower.

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They typically need quite a bit
of thermal hand holding and and

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that kind of a thermal system
tends to reduce the range quite

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a bit.

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Similarly, future electric and
hybrid electric aircraft are

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going to see the same problem on
the ground.

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They're going to see lower
temperatures and we've got to

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find a way to get them warm
enough to operate reliably.

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But on top of that as they go to
altitude, the temperatures

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typically can go.

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As we go up higher we'll start
going lower.

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So they'll need to have an
extensive thermal system on

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board to handle that and keep
things going at least with

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state-of-the-art if there's a
capability of battery cells that

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are can operate at these lower
temperatures that would go into

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both of these applications and
probably improve the range and

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and capabilities in general.

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So I'd like to thank you very
much for the time you spent with

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me today and we look forward to
hearing your potential

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solutions.

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Thank you.